I have been gaining knowledge of Turbo FIAT cars and I think I have it all sorted other than the reason that the 500/Mito turbo and manifold are different to other FIAT cars that came out before them. They are the same engines to the part numbers as Bravo/GP and they already have the Standard and Abarth turbo setups using the same manifold and all that, so why develop new stuff? My guess is simply packaging requirements due to restricted engine bay space?

Can someone shed a little light on why and clarify the difference between this setup and the Arbarth GP/Bravo Sport setup in terms of tunability please?

Not sure i understand what's being asked here, but if this helps. The engine used in the MiTo/500 Abarth etc is a "T-jet" engine as found in the Grande Punto with around 120 HP. When placed in the Abarth 500, it has the same turbo i believe but 135 HP as standard, when SS'ed to 160 HP the turbo is not changed on the 500. When fitted in the Punto Abarth, it has a bigger turbo and 155 HP, the SS changes the turbo for an even bigger one giving 180 HP in the GP. In the MiTo, well that's just a Punto tarted up a little, the 155 HP one is identical to the Punto, even has the same 6 speed box.

The 1.4 Turbo engine used in these cars can be tuned to 360 HP with a lot of time/work/money!

However even the T-jet technology is being replaced/combined with now with Multiair, more power better economy across the range.

Sorry doesn't really answer your question, but helps a little?

The lack of responses to this is quite amusing....most posters in this section are clearly here to talk about paint colours.

EDIT:
It is a good question though! I wish I could answer it!

I'm sure someone will know, give em time!

To clarify. I do understand which parts are used in every T-jet configuration in all the FIAT/Lancia/Alfa ranges, how each tune level is achieved in the different models and which parts are the same on each cars, so no need to go over old stuff. It's more the practical differences, like dimensions and manifold design of these Abarth 500/ Mito stuff that I am interested in.

Again, I make assumptions that it is smaller, therefore turbo slightly smaller/ manifold restrictive and therefore the slight restriction of tunability in comparison to the GP Abarth Turbo.

Cheers.

lewey said:

Again, I make assumptions that it is smaller, therefore turbo slightly smaller/ manifold restrictive and therefore the slight restriction of tunability in comparison to the GP Abarth Turbo.

Cheers.

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Not really, the 360 HP figure i quoted earlier on the Abarth 500 was an extreme example, but there is a guy who has kept his A500 looking stock, but has changed the engine CC to a 1.6 (and all the other stuff that comes with it) bigger turbo, exhaust etc and he's getting around 270 to 300 HP!

DraigFlag87 said:

When placed in the Abarth 500, it has the same turbo i believe but 135 HP as standard

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Different turbo. Hence the question.

DraigFlag87 said:

In the MiTo, well that's just a Punto tarted up a little, the 155 HP one is identical to the Punto, even has the same 6 speed box.

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Again, not true I'm afraid.

DraigFlag87 said:

Not really, the 360 HP figure i quoted earlier on the Abarth 500 was an extreme example, but there is a guy who has kept his A500 looking stock, but has changed the engine CC to a 1.6 (and all the other stuff that comes with it) bigger turbo, exhaust etc and he's getting around 270 to 300 HP!

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I would like to talk about standard cars please.

lewey said:

Again, not true I'm afraid.

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Sorry mate, but Draig is correct. It's the same engine used in the GPA.

sikersh said:

Sorry mate, but Draig is correct. It's the same engine used in the GPA.

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It has the same turbo/manifold as the Abarth 500, not GPA. Please check ePer if you have access to it. Actual engine is the same, but we've already established that.

Packaging is not an issue on the 500, the Trofeo cars use the manifold and slightly larger (it's still tiny) Garrett turbo that is fitted on GPA SS kit's.

Manifold is the same size as used on standard 500Abarth that has one of the smallest IHI turbo's I have ever seen fitted to a car. But as with many modern car s to help with quick spool up times the turbo is built into the manifold hence different part numbers for manifolds dependent on turbo configuration.

The standard turbo on a 500A is always going to hold it back to about 160ish bhp, some may claim it can do more, but by that point you would really want to look at the compressor map and check intake temps to ensure turbo is not just making hot air.

The Garrett as fitted to the Trofeo and GPA(SS) is on the Trofeo cars putting out about 215-220bhp, but is recommended to be rebuilt ever 4000klms, though of course it will be getting a hard life over those low miles, but makes you think that the road cars running this small turbo can make about the same safely, going higher again going beyond the turbo's boundaries.

Going for more power than this and wanting reliable power means getting a bigger turbo that can shift more volume of air at lower boost levels as its a balancing act between volume and pressure, you can have a little turbo moving a smaller volume of air at higher pressure which means its getting hot, will make less power than a large turbo shifting a higher volume of air at a lower temps, of course going bigger means more lag to get turbo spinning up.

PS calling a MiTo a Punto in drag is really opening up a can of worms and could lead people to say a 500A is a Panda T-jet in a corset

I like corsets.

So it's defo not packaging then. FIAT must simply have wanted a different spooling characteristic than they were getting with the "Abarth" Turbo used on the GPA/ Bravo 150. Seems like a fair bit of effort to me, but I'm sure they know best. Perhaps it is simply cheaper developed parts using the lessons learned from the older design and it will now be used on other future models?

I have been thinking about a Panda t-jet. Would make a great combination I think.

Of course another reason on different turbo's could be to do with gear ratios.

The 500A has a 5speed box, so having a smaller turbo means you get less lag as you drop down through the gears as having 5 ratios means you get a bigger rpm drop between gears.

The GPA has a 6 speed box and therefore has a smaller rpm drop between gears so your higher up the rpm band so the slightly bigger turbo is more likely to be in is area of performance.
Idon't know what Bravo's have in terms of gears, but would imagine being a larger car having more weight to shift it would have the 6 speed box and if it has the smaller turbo it's to keep it on song moving the extra mass as it's a car less likely to be rev'd hard like an Abarth model is so used at lower rpm's where the smaller turbo works better. this is of course only my thoughts on it, can't say for sure.

The Trofeo cars have the 6 speed box fitted from the GPA (though with addition of a LSD), it's nothing fancy juts a standard H pattern change, but steering lock is truly awful meaning you take about 3-4 bites at turning in a confined area whereas in normal road car you would do it in 1 or 2 moves.

As for a Panda T-Jet, it is something we have considered as a nice project, a nice standard 100HP, T-Jet engine and SS manifold/Garrett Turbo, 200bhp and the must have LSD, would make a brilliant car.