Technical Some advice please - repairs

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Technical Some advice please - repairs

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Jun 23, 2014
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Hi al,

Ever since I hit a deer last year, I've been having an issue with the Turbo on my 1.4 MultiAir Lounge.

Much of the time it works fine, but when I leave work at the end of the day it simply doesn't work at all. This means I'm just driving a big, fat 1.4 with no extra power, making it near impossible to even reach 60mph...


If I put it in "sport" mode to display the "turbo meter", I can see that it simply never gets enough power. See video here:



This is me accelerating with my foot to the floor out of a 30 into national in 4th gear.

Legal disclaimer: Filmed by passenger. :cool:

The fix is to drive for a couple of minutes, stop, turn the engine off and on again and set off again and it seems to be fine.

As I say, this only really happens in the evenings when I leave work. In the morning it's fine (90% of the time), when I drive on a heated engine it's fine.

As an aside, my cruise control often doesn't work at the same time either (as in pressing any CC buttons do nothing) - I have no idea if this is connected.

So anyway, I eventually bit the bullet and took the car to my local Fiat specialist (Desira). They had the car for a day and diagnosed a damaged intercooler as the cause, causing the turbo to not get enough air flow to work.

I gave them all the information that I've put in this thread (and showed them video) and that was their diagnosis.

Today they replaced the intercooler, and charged me almost £400 for the pleasure... Only, I've just come home from work and the problem remains.

My question is two-fold:

1. Does anyone have any idea what the issue might actually be? It's clearly not the intercooler as that's now brand new.

2. What do I say when I phone them up tomorrow? Clearly they have mis-diagnosed the cause but I can't imagine they are likely to agree to doing further repairs free of charge...

Appreciate any help or advice anyone can give, I'm at my wits end with this now :( :confused:
 
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Was the deer incident claimed on insurance..??

They have ..Not ... fixed the fault.. was the cooler scheduled to be replaced.. or just fitted on the day..??

Personally.. I would invest in ...
Or borrow...diagnostic kit.. and see what drops out of service when you experience the issue.

Charlie
 
Thanks for your reply Charlie.

I didn't do it on insurance - my biggest regret as it's cost a fortune since. Live and learn.

They diagnosed the intercooler as the issue in this case a couple of months ago and booked it in today as the day of the replacement (so I could save up to afford the blooming thing).

I'm not very car-savvy, so I'll look into your point about diagnostic kit... Sounds like some sort of magical device that can diagnose problems - I wonder why they didn't use one?

Thanks for the advice!
 
I didn't know 1.4 qualified as big and fat. :D

I'm a bit baffled here: what's the difference between the morning and after-work situations? Why does it work fine after a night parking but fails to work after a day parking?

Anyway, if someone had charged me such a hefty sum for service and gave me virtually no result, I would definitely go back and demand things, possibly in a raised voice.
 
I meant that the car is big and fat and a 1.4 sans-turbo is not powerful enough to get it up to speed!

Your guess is as good as mine - I have no idea what the difference between morning and evening is. I've had a few theories but not been able to prove them, the main one being that I live in a town and work next to a 60mph main road. So before it's driven in the morning, it's trundled around at 30mph for the last 5 mins of it's journey, and the last time it's driven before "home time" it's gone for 2-3 minutes at 60mph to a standstill almost instantly...

But as I say, I know nothing about cars, engines or turbos - hence why I paid an "expert" to sort it for me!
 
About your problem, obviously its hard to diagnose something in an internet forum. But, having said that, the effects of the problem seem like the turbo is not getting enough air to produce pressure. If the problem is intermittent, then it could be that something (like a hose) is causing a leak in the system. This could show up as you describe, when the engine is fully warm then the problem goes away.

The typical diagnostic kit, is a simple OBDII (ELM327 type) reader, you can get a wireless (Bluetooth) one for as little as £10. You can use a laptop or a smartphone with the proper application, to read all the fault codes generated by the ECU of the car.

There are some limitations, manufacturers are required to give you access to the engine ECU, but you won't be able to read data from other ECUs, like the transmission ECU, traction control ECU, immobilizer ECU, etc. To read others ECUs you need the manufacturers diagnostic software (or OEM diagnostic software from a 3rd party, or even some Chinese reverse engineered things).

It is entirely possible, that the engine ECU won't show any error codes, but if it does then it will help you determine the exact cause of the problem (or at least guide you closer).

The OBD port is by law under the steering wheel, and/or drivers foot area. The port should not be hidden or covered, but some manufacturers put a plastic cover on top of them.
 
Thanks for your reply. I've seen the port you refer to as they left the plastic cover off when I had the car serviced last month. Obviously any tests they ran didn't show up any issues as, like I say, it's pretty intermittent. Thanks for the advice!
 
The typical diagnostic kit, is a simple OBDII (ELM327 type) reader, you can get a wireless (Bluetooth) one for as little as £10. You can use a laptop or a smartphone with the proper application, to read all the fault codes generated by the ECU of the car.

This sounds really useful. I may just buy one for the future, to be better informed in case of any engine trouble, before going to the dealer. Thank you!
 
The On Board Diagnostic port ..
Llke a SCART socket.

It gives access to ALL of the vehicles ECU type devices.

Basic readers are engine only..
Others.. like the dealerships use..
Can connect to steering. ABS. Powerroofs. Body control. Etc

MultiECUscan can be run on a windows laptop..and the FREE version should do basic engine tests..as well as proper fault code diagnosis.

You will want to compare relative temps and pressures in the event of full power..and limited power.

You can also remotely operate devices.. so if something becomes 'un available' you know where to start looking.

Charlie
 
Went into dealer this morning. They are going to "have another look" on Tuesday. Problem is that I'm talking to sales/reception person relaying the information onto the mechanic, so I can't be sure she's actually telling them everything I'm telling her!

As problem is intermittent and they never test under the same circumstances as when the problem occurs...

If this is the right do-hicky, I'll get one of these on Prime and see if anything comes up! Seem to be easy enough to use from what I can read...

[ame="https://www.amazon.co.uk/HanrainTool-ELM327-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Tool-HR-Tool%C2%AE/dp/B0764CTR19/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1523001082&sr=1-1&keywords=OBDII+%28ELM327+type%29+reader+bluetooth&refinements=p_76%3A419158031"]Mini ELM327 Bluetooth ELM 327 OBD2 OBDII Scan Tool Car Auto Diagnostic Tool-HR-Tool®: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike[/ame]
 
Just for reference, I use this on my samsung phone:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.wgsoft.scanmaster

A lot of functionality is NOT accessible to us. Some functions are disabled even for dealers and independent shops, the only way to unlock them, is for the dealer to book time with the factory, hook up the car to internet and give direct access to a tech guy from the factory, who will use certain keys to unlock full functionality to all ECUs in a car.

Newer and high-end cars also come with certain new features, like storing the VIN and mileage of the car in strange places, like the headlights. So replacing the ECU to lower the miles of a car won't work.
 
Went into dealer this morning. They are going to "have another look" on Tuesday. Problem is that I'm talking to sales/reception person relaying the information onto the mechanic, so I can't be sure she's actually telling them everything I'm telling her

A common problem. You can insist on talking to the master technician but often the receptionist will come up with various excuses to avoid this.

What I like to do is email the problems and bring a printout to the garage when I take it in. This often raises eyebrows, especially if the list is long, but it is near foolproof. And doing this has been absolutely central to a legal challenge I launched against Ford a while back. Suffice to say that I won but my written correspondence was a cornerstone of this...

Tl.Dr = put your symptoms in writing to the garage. It's then your words and not what the receptionist says.
 
Thanks Garree, I will do just that when I drop the car off on Tuesday. The person who I always deal with is a bit fierce and can be very salty so I'd like to avoid getting into a face-to-face argument with her if I can :D

Though that may be unavoidable when they inevitably come back and say "We now think it's this, that'll be £800 please", which I can almost guarantee they will!
 
The person who I always deal with is a bit fierce and can be very salty so I'd like to avoid getting into a face-to-face argument with her if I can :D

I'm very lucky with my local dealer here. They can't really help me with warranties, map upgrades and stuff like that (because my car is from the US), but when it comes to diagnostics and service, they are very good at listening and trying to do their best to help.

The service receptionist I'm dealing with directly is a very nice guy whom I clicked with instantly. I communicate with him via email extensively, before going face-to-face. I give him detailed accounts on what's bothering me, he provides me with advice, estimates, planning, etc. And this whole written communication thing is also very useful for future reference.
 
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Write down the problem, like you've done here, as concise as possible. Leave a legible copy on the driver's seat, so the mechanic can read it. Large letters across the top, "To the Mechanic", otherwise they may ignore it assuming it may be private stuff.
 
Leave a legible copy on the driver's seat, so the mechanic can read it.

Assuming the mechanic can read.

He he he, sorry, saw an opportunity for a giggle there. No offense to anyone, all the mechanics I know are super-nice guys. It's just some of them are not so keen on written communication, to say the least. :p
 
Thought I'd add a brief update here.

So the dealer held firm that the intercooler was damaged and leaking air and therefore needed to be replaced anyway - no refund or anything on that.

I maintained that this didn't fix the problem I was having.

They then suggested replacing the air filter as it was "extremely clogged". There was a small charge for this that I was happy to pay.

They also then suggested replacing the turbo, there was no way I was willing to pay for this, but for whatever reason they stated that this would be covered by the warranty. On those grounds I was happy to go ahead and that (so far - touch wood) seems to have fixed the problem.
 
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It may be that the waste gate was sticking open intermittently. This lets excess turbo pressure escape, but if it's open all the time it's like having no turbo.
The 500 twinair I ran had the turbo replaced when it was a year old. It was done f.o.c. under a "service campaign" because it was part of a batch that could have the wastegate mechanism detach, causing it to stay open.
 
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