sandaru said:

I can see my under bonnet sticker , need to use paraflu 11. Car is year 2000 so has fiat replaced 11 with paraflu up red pink one? Or i should use 11 blue one.

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As I said before, Paraflu Blue G11 is superseded by red G12.
No worries, just do a good flush before filling the red sollution in..!!

Thanks guys

I used to always use distilled water.

When I got a water softener installed (ion exchange) I use that water instead.

Interestingly a Rover fan guy I know showed me an article in a Rover Club magazine about not using water from a water softener as it leads to increased corrosion.

Being curious I did an extended metal nail test. I put 3 normal wood mails into tap water, distilled water and water from the softener. Much to the wife's disgust the three sample bottles remained on the mantelpiece for nearly 3 months.

My conclusion from the test was that there was no real difference between the samples but the tap raw tap water was slightly worse than the others.

What manufacturers are concerned about with tap water (as I understand it) is the natural salts in hard water that can enhance corrosion. One of the whole purposes of antifreeze is not just stopping the water from freezing but to reduce corrosion, improve boiling point/evaporation qualities and improve cooling performance. A multi purpose intent. What they don't have control over is how the raw stock concentrate is diluted and at what percentage. So they say 50% dilution and distilled/deionised water. The 50% guarantees the freezing and corrosion level protection and the distilled/deionised water removes any other contaminants. Tap water quality/hardness/containments varies vastly over the planet so they cover their backs by removing this variant and go for distilled/deionised water.

Some water softeners use salt to remove the calcium carbonate (limescale) from the water. The salt somehow is supposed not to dissolve into the water, only react with the calcium carbonate. I'd expect a little salt in the softened water, but it seems to be ok, especially from your test.

With your tests, did you seal the sample bottles, or were they open to the air? I think open is more likely to corrode, as to corrode, the steel needs water and oxygen.

The test bottles were half full but capped.

My softener is of the two chamber resin ion-exchange type. In theory the saline used to regenerate the resin can not get into the water outlet supply.

sandaru said:

I can see my under bonnet sticker , need to use paraflu 11. Car is year 2000 so has fiat replaced 11 with paraflu up red pink one? Or i should use 11 blue one.

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You can use the blue coolant, or you can use the pink coolant, since your car was engineered for the blue one. However, I have never heard of any problems putting blue or pink in any car, regardless of its age.

You're also not supposed to mix the different types but a guy on the Alfa forum tried it and didn't have any problems. The biggest reason not to mix them seems to be that the result (a greeny brown) looks like vomit..

I would also suggest using a 50:50 mix, not 20:80 or any other variation. If you use less than 50%, your engine will corrode, albeit more slowly than if you use water alone. Any water causes corrosion.

But if you go above 50%, the glycol starts to lower the boiling point of the coolant. 50% boils at 113C (atmospheric) so is the best compromise between protection and boiling point.

Distilled water or not distilled water... If you're in a soft water area then regular tap water would do. If you're in a hard water area, then bottled water is better. If you have someone selling distilled water nearby, then distilled water is best.

If you have 50% antifreeze in your coolant, that suppresses the leaching of minerals out of the water... but minerals rarely become fatal on their own. You'll wear out your water pump and thermostat more quickly but otherwise it's not the biggest problem, if you have no antifreeze in there.


Ralf S.

A reminder what someone else said;

"And NEVER, EVER use blue/green antifreeze in cars intended for the use of red/pink coolant, it will ruin the cooling system, or even the entire engine"

This happened to us with a three year old VW. It did get fixed but was a real pain. The coolant coagulated, ie turned to a thick jelly.

Random question - our condenser tumble drier has a water tank which fills with the condensate. By definition, this must be distilled water. I can see no visible evidence of solids (e.g. clothing fibres). Does anyone know if this could be used in applications that don't like limescale. I'm thinking of our steam iron rather than automotive, but am interested in what people think.

I sometimes use water produced by the AC like dryer in my workshop, in the windshield washer of my car.
On the other hand, because it's so inexpensive, I rather use distilled water instead...

Ralf S. said:

I would also suggest using a 50:50 mix, not 20:80 or any other variation. If you use less than 50%, your engine will corrode, albeit more slowly than if you use water alone. Any water causes corrosion.
Ralf S.

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A 20% mix will do very fine in a hot climat, this sollution contains enough anti corrosion habbits, and it will infact cool better than a 50% mix...

Ralf S. said:

You're also not supposed to mix the different types but a guy on the Alfa forum tried it and didn't have any problems. The biggest reason not to mix them seems to be that the result (a greeny brown) looks like vomit..

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I worked for a large car parts supplier. When the pink/red coolant was introduced our quality engineer for the product looked into it. Mixing the two types should not cause any issues, but would negate the benefits of the newer type, so any mix should be changed at two years max.

bigshineybike said:

A reminder what someone else said;

"And NEVER, EVER use blue/green antifreeze in cars intended for the use of red/pink coolant, it will ruin the cooling system, or even the entire engine"

This happened to us with a three year old VW. It did get fixed but was a real pain. The coolant coagulated, ie turned to a thick jelly.

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There have though been some reports of some gaskets for older cars not liking the new coolant. This was a prime reason not to use it in older vehicles. There should not be any reason for the two to react and form a jelly. That suggests that something else was added that should not have been there. But always using the correct stuff renders all the theory and advice redundant anyway.

You have been misinformed by your former quality (?) engineer.
The new pink/red OAT anti-freeze ( solutions) WILL react with older blue/green coolant solutions, and form a slow moving jelly like liquid, that WILL ruin any coolant system.
So DON'T mix them.
And any headgasket problems were already present, the new coolant is not to blame...

bigshineybike said:

A reminder what someone else said;

"And NEVER, EVER use blue/green antifreeze in cars intended for the use of red/pink coolant, it will ruin the cooling system, or even the entire engine"

This happened to us with a three year old VW. It did get fixed but was a real pain. The coolant coagulated, ie turned to a thick jelly.

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Yes good call. I tried mixing them in a jar when I swapped from blue to pink, just to see what happened. I didn't have any reaction (it just looked nasty) but I can't think why you would ever want (or have) to mix them. If you need an emergency top-up, neat water works fine until you can get the old stuff swapped out properly.

I'm curious enough to give it another try (maybe over Christmas when I get bored). Maybe it only goes "jelly" when it gets hot..?


Ralf S.

Ralf S. said:

Yes good call. I tried mixing them in a jar when I swapped from blue to pink, just to see what happened. I didn't have any reaction (it just looked nasty) but I can't think why you would ever want (or have) to mix them. If you need an emergency top-up, neat water works fine until you can get the old stuff swapped out properly.

I'm curious enough to give it another try (maybe over Christmas when I get bored). Maybe it only goes "jelly" when it gets hot..?


Ralf S.

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Please give it a go, with before and after pics if poss. Should be entertaining as well as informative.

Hello guys in my country we do not have paraflu products to buy. So can i use this http://lexuslanka.com/dynamax-products/Coolants/dynamax-b5-f9-al-g11 Dynamax G11 blue made in Slovakia instead of paraflu 11?

(almost) Same stuff.
G11 is allright, it's the blue/greenish old fashioned anti-freeze, used until about 2010.
Change it every 2-3 years.

I'll chip in here as with a general statement about mixing products.

My Dad (RIP) spent near on 50 years working for Shell & Exxon as research and product chemist.

All major companies go to great lengths to ensure product compatibility in that "foreseen misuse" as in mixing of different products in same basic categories/types will not be detrimental, terminal or a heath/explosive etc. risk. In fact this is an expected standard by the various SAE/other etc. standards organisations.

Mixing one with another will not, should not, in itself cause radically adverse side effects but you can not *expect* the combined mix to be 100% up to specification.

Logic suggests one should try to keep like with like and where you may have done a cross mix (e.g changed from blue to red but guess 20% blue was left in the system) then look at replacing in 36 months time and not 60 months time.