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Old 21-07-2017   #16
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

Quote Originally Posted by Kev1234 View Post
Cheers Guys,
Id almost been put off. I'm test driving a 16 plate Cross Plus 1.6 Diesel with 18" wheels :-)
What sort of MPG should I be expecting? I mainly drive fairly fast A and B roads on my 30 mile commute each day.
My 1.6 cross plus (On 18s) has averaged 54 mpg over the past 3000 miles. Really like it.
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Old 21-07-2017   #17
Ohhh my, yes.
 
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Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
I think we have to stand back and think fact, talk fact, understand fact when it comes to MPG and reports of "I drove from Edinburgh to Brighton on x gallons of fuel.

ALL manufacturers play games with MPG etc. We know (FACT) that mpg figures for any given car are based on laboratory test conditions. These tests DO NOT take into account wind resistance, road variable surface materials, etc. etc. The manufacturer offers sample productions car for testing. The test criteria is known so manufacturers can deliver a production representative vehicle "MATCHED" to delivering best can do performance on the "known/standard test bed.

Put the tested car on a real road, with real wind resistance, real surface profiles, and "real life motoring" and you can toss the "official" figures into the bin.

Please note! I'm not suggesting people are telling fibs about their fuel economy. The poorer the performance the MORE I believe it.

Given a petrol engine then a 1.4 Turbo is roughly equivalent to a 1.8L/2.0L naturally aspirated petrol engine. Both deliver (when in good running order) around 30MPG over the lifetime driving cycle.

For every car I've owned since 1974 I've kept a detailed "lifetime" log of fuel put in, s put in, Litres put in and all mileages.

Needless to say the ACTUAL figures fall far short of what was officially documented.

Last point. If you want to have a fun, lively, get up and go "drive" then MPG is a mute point. You have to balance dead duck feel against she/he does what I ask. The "ASK" is your driving style and pleasure.

IMHO the 500X is around the expected "level" for a car/engine/etc of this type.

I would prefer to pay some extra s per year and have driving fun/pleasure than thoroughly hating a 17K+ purchase based on MPG disappointment.

Summary. Lifetime 1.4 Turbo, 1.8/2.0L petrol engines are going to weigh in at around 30 to 35 MPG. Also note that modern engine management systems keep the ideal fuel burn (etc) in the ideal Lambda ratio as best as they can.

IMHO the 500X is no worse or no better than the other make options out there. These manufacturers compete hard to be as good as they can. What one has to do is decide are your a "MPG", "Driveability", "Load carrying", "size", "shape", etc. driver.

Only the individual buyer can dictate/choose the parameters.
Have to disagree with you slightly. Small turbo engines are quite capable of delivering far worse fuel economy than their larger petrol equivalents.

The proliferation of small turbo charged engines is entirely down to fiddling the current European emissions tests. The tests themselves are actually fairly objective but they are also highly flawed. The acceleration element of the test is so gentle, a turbo will barely spool up. So what the manufacturers do is fit small turbocharged engines as these will be cleaner and more fuel efficient on the test. Almost as clean as the same sized engine but without a turbo in fact. But at the same time, the small turbocharged engine allows manufacturers to bang on about good headline figures... Sub 10s 0-60, good BHP, good supposed economy, low emissions.

However, when you consider the purpose of a turbo is to force air in and increase the amount of fuel used on the burn cycle to in turn increase power, it becomes obvious that a small engine will happily eat fuel in huge gulps. This is why around town, small turbo charged engines are so disappointing. The turbo is doing work it didn't do during the EU's test.

Compare this to larger normally aspirated engines. They don't have to work as hard whilst making marginally more leisurely progress. But the price for this is an engine you have to rev the nuts off to get in the 'proper' power band. The chances are, most people won't drive like this and will drive in the manner that suits the engine. Real world town conditions suit normally aspirated engines.

Contrast this to motorway cruising and this is where small turbocharged engines come into play. When cruising, the turbo is barely spooling in comparison to what you're doing in town. But the larger normally aspirated engines are in fact using more fuel by comparison. This is why my Astra 2.2 kicked the 500x's rear on town and the 500x kicked the Astra in the knackers on the motorway.

Mark my words. When the new EU 'real world' tests start, I'm certain that small turbo charged engines will die out a little. Not entirely though as lazy people have gotten used to the earlier power band that a turbo will bring. They won't like having to hit 5,000+ revs to make pace when you're used to the oomph coming in half that.

Sorry to say though. The 500x 1.4t in real world conditions is worse on fuel consumption than many equivalent cars. Having driven many, including a couple of 500x rivals, this is what I've found. Do I care about this poorer fuel economy? Yes, a bit. But enough to care a lot? Not at the moment.

And yes, I studied engineering out of school.
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Old 22-07-2017   #18
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

Quote Originally Posted by robotdancer View Post
My 1.6 cross plus (On 18s) has averaged 54 mpg over the past 3000 miles. Really like it.
Thanks very much. Just what I was looking for.
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Old 22-07-2017   #19
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

Quote Originally Posted by Kev1234 View Post
Thanks very much. Just what I was looking for.
Would have sent you a pic of the display but it's p'ing down outside! 😊. I try to leave one trip meter running for as long as possible to get a true picture of mpg.

Driving on that figure is for a real mix including: Heavy town and city, motorway, rural, with and without family and bike racks (On the tow bar) never use roof mounted stuff like roof box as they annihilate mpg!

Annual mileage is just over 10k a year, service intervals are 12k so works well.

Also, I used to drive very steady on motorways (My last car was a big permanent 4 wheel drive) however I actually find I get the same or better mpg cruising between 66 and 70 than at say 58 to 66. There seems to be a definite 'sweet spot' between 50 and 55 and another at about 66 to 70 for hitting good fuel figures.

It's done a total of 22k miles, just had it's second year service, no major problems at all. Happy with my local dealer... they make mistakes but are always polite and remedy anything.

The 1.6 is plenty powerful, very drivable and the sound insulation inside is first rate (sounds like the 2 litre might be less refined).
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Last edited by robotdancer; 22-07-2017 at 08:36.
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Old 22-07-2017   #20
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

Quote Originally Posted by Garree001 View Post
Have to disagree with you slightly. Small turbo engines are quite capable of delivering far worse fuel economy than their larger petrol equivalents.

And yes, I studied engineering out of school.
Me to with 45 years under my belt and I'm not disagreeing with you. You have well explained the finer engineering points of turbo vs naturally aspirated vs operating cycles and types of driving (city vs long haul cruising etc).

Yes the 500X is not brilliant around town and short journeys. To support my general statement about average fuel performance when I look at all my fuel records for 500X 1.4L Turbo, Strada Abarth 2.0L, Tempra 1.8ie, Punto HGT 1.8, Barchetta 1.8, Tipo 1.6ie and Stilo Abarth 2.2L then the only one that is radically worse/deviant is the Stilo Abarth.

At the other end of the scale my Uno SX 1.3 carb (68BHP) when on the race track would ONLY deliver 14mpg. Classic case of a normally fairly fuel efficient engine being pushed into regions of operation outside of the envelope. Same tracks and faster speeds the Strada Abarth slaughtered the Uno MPG beating it by miles.

If you are after fuel economy then there are plenty of choices out there. If you are looking for a little more than fuel economy with a bit of fun, performance, practicality etc. then 500X come into game.

All engineering is a compromise and a cost and performance exercise. Sadly there is never a "perfect" solution to any engineering challenge. The more perfect the more expensive.
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Old 22-07-2017   #21
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

I have had a 1.6 Multijet Lounge (not the 4WD) since January. Bought at 10 months old and had done 6,500 miles at average of 43 mpg. I have put another 6,500 miles on it, averaging 52 mpg so the consumption is improving as the engine loosens up.

We like the car a lot and have had no problems with it, and would certainly recommend it. It feels well put together and has a nice, quality, interior (well, for a Fiat anyway!).

I would put the caveat on these comments that we are not really interested in the technology in the car - which seems to work well enough - as we are of that generation that buys a car to get from A to B comfortably and with minimum fuss. It does at least do that with a little style, unlike many of its competitors, which are as dull as ditchwater.

Cheers
Cliff
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Old 22-07-2017   #22
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

I too am one of the generation that puts fuel in it and off we go. I understand some of the technology and gimmicks but not all.

At the end of the day am I happy with the fuel consumption? Yes, is the car comfortable? Yes, do I actively enjoy driving it? Yes.

I could change the uConnect for something better but I can't be bothered, it's good enough.

Would I buy another? Yes

I hope that helps you decide @Kev1234
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Old 22-07-2017   #23
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

Hi all.Kev's1234. OP says he is going to a "car supermarket" to purchase a car. The chances that he would get a prolonged test drive etc are ?????.
I would suggest he looks at the reviews from these places. According to some of the reviews, the headline prices( to get you there)are not always available.
Look carefully at warrantees.
Personally I would purchase from a local garage.
Obviously many people are satisfied with these supermarkets.
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Old 22-07-2017   #24
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

Surely @Kev1234 would still get the full 2 year warranty regardless of where he bought it, but I doubt he'd get the third year from a non-franchised dealer. I imagine price will be the ultimate factor
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Old 22-07-2017   #25
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

Quote Originally Posted by Kev1234 View Post
I was about to pull the trigger and buy a 500X from a car supermarket this weekend.
But after reading this forum Im a bit put off. Are they really that bad?
One of the reasons for buying was the tech - such as uconnect and tom tom sat nav, but it seems that they dont really work that well.
Any body give me some positives ?


Why on earth would this forum put you off? Go to any car forum and you will see many complaints about owners cars. That's why these forums exist. They are the best place to air views on niggles faults etc. I have had my 500x for nearly two years and 24000 miles and I think it's been one of the best cars I have had. Previous to this I had a Panda,Punto,BMW ,Mazda,Laguna and Clio.Yes I have had a couple of minor issues ( all fixed under warranty) but compared to the Renault it's a fantastic motor.The Renault was a disaster forever breaking down...total nightmare.Bmw and Mazda very good but far to expensive. The 500x I feel is Fiat's best car to date.
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Old 22-07-2017   #26
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

Quote Originally Posted by twobigdogs View Post
Why on earth would this forum put you off? Go to any car forum and you will see many complaints about owners cars. That's why these forums exist. They are the best place to air views on niggles faults etc. I have had my 500x for nearly two years and 24000 miles and I think it's been one of the best cars I have had. Previous to this I had a Panda,Punto,BMW ,Mazda,Laguna and Clio.Yes I have had a couple of minor issues ( all fixed under warranty) but compared to the Renault it's a fantastic motor.The Renault was a disaster forever breaking down...total nightmare.Bmw and Mazda very good but far to expensive. The 500x I feel is Fiat's best car to date.


I find my iPhone works perfectly with uconnect,I stream my music from the phone without issue and I also use a memory stick to play loaded MP3 cds etc. I don't have the sat nav so couldn't comment.
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Old 22-07-2017   #27
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

Quote Originally Posted by NitramA View Post
Totally agree with this.

Go to the BMW forum and its the same - only problems.

I think people only post when something is wrong.

You don't often get posts saying everything is good.



There were issues with the 500X but mainly around the tech. Don't expect the UConnect to be up to much, its just a glorified media player.

But then the BMW one was not much better, just has better graphics and improved usability.

Does mostly the same thing though.



I'd drive one and make up your won mind.



Remember to drive it on a mixture of roads - include bumpy surfaces and around town in stop/start traffic.

And not just for 5 minutes. Remember you will be living with it.

Just like any car really.


Had mine 3.5 months and everything is good!
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Old 22-07-2017   #28
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

Lots of good stuff about fuel consumption above. More real world feedback here:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/fiat/500x-2015

Another thing to consider when buying a new or nearly new car is the greatest cost is likely to be depreceation rather than fuel.
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Old 24-07-2017   #29
flying low...
 
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

Spritmonitor.de also shows reallife mpg:
https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overv...30&powerunit=2
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Old 25-07-2017   #30
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Re: Just about to buy a 500X but this forum is putting me off.

I find the forum way too negative as well, to be honest.

I've got a '66 plate 500X 1.4 petrol, manual, owned from new. It has been a very good car. UConnect is fine - the issues people have with it relate to the fact that they've bought an ex-fleet car and get upset when they can't update it. My 6.5" unit has worked great since day one and is easy to use.

Mine is also loaded with the various sensors, reversing cameras, adaptive cruise control and the like. All work well. The car as a whole is put together well, drives well and is comfortable.

Oh and it's a heck of a lot cheaper than a BMW or Mercedes.
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