Save up to 15% with Adrian Flux insurance!

General 500X DRL LED upgrade

Currently reading:
General 500X DRL LED upgrade

HI RVM ,

They are the correct type of led bulb for the 500L UK I have tried four so far but each time the canbus says check DRLs. It seems the 500L and 500X are different? 500L has a duel filament bulb 21w/5w as used in by Vauxhall, VW, Chrysler and Fiat.

As to why I have to change the brake light bulbs so often? I do not know! but i can now do it in less than 10 minuets (lol) One thing to watch out for when changing the brake light bulbs is the chrome light unit surround, its just held on with plastic clips and they break very easily !!

Back to LED's I have discovered that the headlight bulbs can be replaced with LEDs without affecting the canbus! Another note, changing the headlight bulbs is so easy, no fiddle clips, just spring clip pull out and push in ...
 
manxman020 said:
HI RVM ,

<SNIP>

Back to LED's I have discovered that the headlight bulbs can be replaced with LEDs without affecting the canbus! Another note, changing the headlight bulbs is so easy, no fiddle clips, just spring clip pull out and push in ...
Click to expand...

None of the LED replacements "affect the CAN Bus" the issue is that the car has bulb failure detection and the lower current of the LED is detected as a faulty bulb. The only connection to CAN is that the light switching command and communication of failure is by CAN. The Headlights don't have bulb failure detection (you should be able to tell if a bulb is out).
LED replacement headlight lamps are illegal, dazzle other road users and invalidate your insurance. Don't fit them!:bang:(n)

Robert G8RPI.
 
g8rpi said:
None of the LED replacements "affect the CAN Bus" the issue is that the car has bulb failure detection and the lower current of the LED is detected as a faulty bulb.
Click to expand...

Indeed quite correct. CAN Bus is a computer/device communications protocol/interface, just like RS232, USB, LAN network IP, etc.

To add a little extra facts/confusion we have the so called "Muliplexed" lighting systems.

What does this term Multiplexed mean. Basically that more than ONE signal can be communicated from A to B.

The 500X rear side lights and brake lights are multiplexed. If you look carefully the side light bulbs and brake light bulbs are actually wired in parallel. The multiplexing is that for side lights both side light and brake light bulbs are fed with a 50% duty cycle DC waveform. When the brake pedal is pressed this 50% goes to 100%.

This raises another issue for LED use in some cars. Will/does the LED bulb operate without problems, internal oveheating, etc. when fed with a non 100% duty cycle waveform?

I've purchased so called dimmable house LED lamps to find that they do not meet muster.

When we talk about DRL lights then actually they have to have a two state operation.

When in day (no headlights etc) they are bright. When headlights/sidelights are turned on the DRLs are REQUIRED to dim and emit less light/intensity but NOT turn out completely.

This then begs the question as to how replacing filament bulbs with LED units will actually respond/comply with legislation when fed with a power/voltage profile that might be unique to a specific vehicle manufacturer.

I've worked in the electronics industry since 1973, have patents, etc. etc. and it is fundamentally amazing what you can do with a dumb filament bulb (the integrator) and how modern systems taking advantage of the integrator can be completely *ucked up by somebody changing what they think is just another light bulb.
 
g8rpi said:
None of the LED replacements "affect the CAN Bus" the issue is that the car has bulb failure detection and the lower current of the LED is detected as a faulty bulb.
Click to expand...

Indeed quite correct. CAN Bus is a computer/device communications protocol/interface, just like RS232, USB, LAN network IP, etc.

To add a little extra facts/confusion we have the so called "Muliplexed" lighting systems.

What does this term Multiplexed mean. Basically that more than ONE signal can be communicated from A to B.

The 500X rear side lights and brake lights are multiplexed. If you look carefully the side light bulbs and brake light bulbs are actually wired in parallel. The multiplexing is that for side lights both side light and brake light bulbs are fed with a 50% duty cycle DC waveform. When the brake pedal is pressed this 50% goes to 100%.

This raises another issue for LED use in some cars. Will/does the LED bulb operate without problems, internal oveheating, etc. when fed with a non 100% duty cycle waveform?

I've purchased so called dimmable house LED lamps to find that they do not meet muster.

When we talk about DRL lights then actually they have to have a two state operation.

When in day (no headlights etc) they are bright. When headlights/sidelights are turned on the DRLs are REQUIRED to dim and emit less light/intensity but NOT turn out completely.

This then begs the question as to how replacing filament bulbs with LED units will actually respond/comply with legislation when fed with a power/voltage profile that might be unique to a specific vehicle manufacturer.

I've worked in the electronics industry since 1973, have patents, etc. etc. and it is fundamentally amazing what you can do with a dumb filament bulb (the integrator) and how modern systems taking advantage of the integrator can be completely *ucked up by somebody changing what they think is just another light bulb.
 
Manxman, I was fooled initially by the DRL dimming arrangement in the 500X. I had assumed it used the same dual filament set up that my 500 hatch had - as you describe, a 21W/5W lamp, T20 in this case. But the 500X uses a single filament P21W, which is dimmed when required. This is almost certainly done by varying the duty cycle, as described by s130 above.
 
This conversation has gone on so long that times have changed.

You can now buy CE approved LED filament style bulbs from Ring as a direct replacement for traditional bulbs. Just look on their website for part numbers and ratings. ?
 
I would guess changing the headlight bulbs for LED’s would seriously effect the lighting requirements of the original light unit. It’s not designed for led bulbs.
 
robotdancer said:
This conversation has gone on so long that times have changed.

You can now buy CE approved LED filament style bulbs from Ring as a direct replacement for traditional bulbs. Just look on their website for part numbers and ratings. ?
Click to expand...

No, It's not possible as there is no standard for LED replacement bulbs. Philips are the worst for misleading information on LEDs
Additionally CE marking does not apply to car parts. Lights and replacement filaments need to be approved to ECE standard and (E) marked.

Robert G8RPI.
 
Osram are very unambiguous about it all

IMG_2862.JPG
 
As a bit of an aside to the ongoing debate around the use and legality of LED DRLs I found these on the Xenons4U website.
They’re normal P21w bulbs and reportedly Super White 5000k.
I didn’t for a second think they’d look like LED but as one of my bulbs had blown (after 18 months) I thought I’d give them a go.
See attached photos for the results.
With no headlights on they are definitly less yellow than the originals but switch on the headlights and there is still too much yellow light to look anywhere near close to the Xenons or a LED.

Might be better than the horrible original but I cant recommend them as a worthwhile solution.
 

Attachments

  • 596B2678-5719-4134-B769-940AED39BF0F.jpeg
    596B2678-5719-4134-B769-940AED39BF0F.jpeg
    4.3 MB · Views: 80
  • BDB55139-45A8-4553-BF94-72F1EACFE54B.jpeg
    BDB55139-45A8-4553-BF94-72F1EACFE54B.jpeg
    4.8 MB · Views: 82
Hi, I got these from my local motor factors, p21w led bulbs An they work An look perfect, why didn’t fiat put modern leds on them anyway!

IMG_7647.JPGIMG_7648.JPG
 
Behave ya self, if there illegal would they be able to sell them?? Why are they on all modern cars??
 
There jus drl bulbs an got xenon headlights An looks worse cause of the camera, I think they look great
 
Wooly5 said:
Behave ya self, if there illegal would they be able to sell them?? Why are they on all modern cars??
Click to expand...

It's not illegal to sell them (though that's debatable) it is illegal to use them in exterior lights on a road vehicle. all lights and replacement lamps must be approved and (e) marked (possibly excepting reversing light). There are no approved replacement LED lamps because there is no standard for them. Factory LED based lights are approved as an assembly and the LEDs are not replaceable.
Read this whole thread.

Robert G8RPI
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Z
General 500X oiler
Replies
0
Views
100
Zaphod
Z
kingfreddiemercury
Technical 2016 Fiat 500X Pop - Uconnect Radio upgrade help
Replies
10
Views
2K
s130
s130
L
Technical Fiat 500x
Replies
4
Views
432
s130
s130
S
Technical Fiat 500X sticky steering
Replies
0
Views
91
stylos
S
O
Technical 500X Exterior door handle
Replies
2
Views
103
s130
s130
Back
Top