Technical Twin-Air MPG

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Technical Twin-Air MPG

Update: it's 412 miles now, and the average remains at 59.5.
Since that includes some very very fast running for a couple of hours, twenty miles of crawling at 40mpg, a forty mile country run at a maximum of sixty, and a fair bit of stop-go in town and on the M25, I reckon it's pretty good.

One day I'll try and see what a steady 70mpg gives me.
 
Ok, just completed a run up and down the A299 and M2 from Sandwich to Bluewater (near Dartford) and back. I set the cruise control at 70mph as much as I could and she has produced exactly 50mpg over the journey.

This is much more like it. Unfortunately, the previous tank, which was just ambling about locally, produced 38mpg......

I'll keep you informed.
 
Non-stop 300 mile run in the dead of night, back from Chester to Deal, in Kent. Cruise control set about 72, with a few 50 limits chucked in - 44.1 mpg

Was expecting 50 at least.

Previous tank bumbling around town - 37 mpg.
 
Quite simply MEP, yes. When I first got her, she was doing about 50 mpg average on a decent run. It's been getting progressively worse since.

It used to be the longer the run, the better the mpg. Now, I can occaisionally get expected mpg. But more often than not, it just isn't very good.

18,000 miles up soon and a service due then, so we'll see if that makes a difference. My dealer still investigating the problem. They expect me to get more than I do, too. Most TA owners seem to get more than I do.
 
Yes mate. It just sems that she is not returning the expected mpg, full stop. I've even had Fiat UK investigating this. They can find no obvious faults when she's plugged in. My main dealer are going to do a comparison with another TA, cross referencing my ecu readings against another TA's or something?

I've had it drop as low as 36mpg average over a tankful. That is simply apalling, especially against advertised mpg figures. This car has been a huge disappointment for me. It's a hateful bloody thing. I probably will move away from Fiat when the contract is up.

Such a shame. My Multis were a pain in the arse, but at least they had some soul, something to love. This is just a squeaky, rattley, uneconomical, pudding geared, soulless piece of tat.

Even its bloody mother wouldn't love it, I'm sure. :D
 
We'd only get late 40's on a journey like that out of our regular 500 TwinAir so 44mpg out of something the size of the 500L is reasonable. Yes it's way below the claimed mpg but it's a big car with a tiny turbo-charged petrol engine under the bonnet, it won't achieve its claim. In general, none of these engines do, whether it be a Fiat, a Ford or a Peugeot. As soon as you put the engine under any load, the mpg tumbles as it's a tiny engine and is under stress much quicker than a larger engine.

To be honest you could've rejected it or swapped it for an engine more suited to your needs ages ago, but I get a bit of an impression you're happier moaning about how awful it is rather than doing something constructive to get yourself out of the situation. I don't see anyone else making major complaints about the 500L & after a return journey from Oxford to Manchester i've seen a lot on the roads.

You said you've spoken to Fiat UK and the dealer, but you've had the car a year, and the MPG is disappointing you more now than it was 12 months ago, so what's happening? Just going to have another conversation with Fiat and yet more head scratching? How long does a conversation need to last?

Sorry to sound harsh, but you're not helping yourself.
 
I don't see anyone else making major complaints about the 500L & after a return journey from Oxford to Manchester i've seen a lot on the roads.

I must admit I found this bit a bit of a harsh review of the 500L

This is just a squeaky, rattley, uneconomical, pudding geared, soulless piece of tat.

Even its bloody mother wouldn't love it, I'm sure. :D

I certainly don't recognise that fitting a description of ours. One thing the 500L definitely has is character both in terms of it's internal and external appearance. Of course it's appearance is not to everybody's taste but it certainly isn't a 'box on wheels' like so many other cars around these days.

As to problems with ours well yes it's had them but small in number, minor and fixed quickly (bar one which is getting sorted next week and that's down to the dealer).

I would hate people to dismiss a car on the basis of one persons experience, bearing mind people generally only come on forums to discuss problems and issues, rarely will you see a post that says - "I have six months problem free motoring as of today".

It is a shame that PB has had fuel economy issues but it highlights to me that the alternative engines are the ones to go for in this particular vehicle. An expensive way for him to find out? definitely.
 
Okeedokey then. :D

The biggest problem I have with getting these individual issues resolved is that I have to take a day off work to get to the dealership and then hang around with the car until it has been looked a, whichcan be several hours. They do not supply courtesy cars. Well, they do, but you have to pay for them, but that is another matter.

The vehicle is due for it's first service very shortly and rather than take numerous days off work to get these individual faults sorted, I'm going to get them looked at at once. That is why there are so many faults built up over a period of time. However I have not made up any of the faults, or issues, if you like. They all exist on a single one year old vehicle, at one time.

I have the car on a three year personal hire contract, I think it's called. I am working with the sales department of the dealership to see when it may be possible to move across to a diesel without spending too much more money (if I decide that is an option) and also VERY patiently with the service department to find out why the MPG, (in my opinion) is so poor.

I do not believe that any of the faults was a good enough reason to reject the vehicle and I have an excellent working relationship with Fiat UK and my dealership and between us hopefully we can resolve the issues. But I am extremely disappointed with the car. And, as such, I would not, personally recommend a 500L twin-air to a potential purchaser.

The Fiatforum is an open forum. I have as much right to voice my opinions on the poor quality of my vehicle as much as anyone has to say how great their vehicles are. I have been a regular contributor to different sections of the Fiatforum over the years, almost always with helpful advice, tech tips, useful photos and positive feedback and support. Therefore I refuse to be berated because I have provided negative feedback about the 500L.

My 500L is a huge disappointment. I am working with Fiat to resolve the issues I have and hopefully once we have done these things, I will be able to tell other users where rattles are coming from, whether my MPG is actually poor and if it is how we resolved it and hopefully provide information on resolving other issues that have occured. Until then I can only caution others that these faults are there and may occur on their vehicle. And I may do that in a most disappointing tone.....

The fact is that my 500L has numerous faults. I have reported these in this forum. Yes, I'm moaning. That's ok, I'm allowed to. When some of these issues are resolved I can and will report with glee how we resolved them.

In the meantime, I will reiterate that I do appreciate all the support and helpful advice I have received since I've started posting in this section.

Bear with me. We may get some issues resolved. We may not.

And I am certainly not going to get in to a war of words on here with anyone. We are blessed in this section to have a dynamis and knowledgeable moderator, which is excellent. And all of you are Fiat enthusiasts as I am. I am absolutely certain you are all very enthusiastic about your individual vehicles. And I have no doubt that you are all great folk who are disappointed with my comments and, it may seem to you, apparent lack of action regarding my vehicle. Fair enough, your perogative too, my friends.

But in the meantime, (he says very tongue in cheek) it does say 'pandabloke' on the posts, so just don't read them if you don't want to. :p

And when I have a positive spin on this car, I will most certainly let you all know about it. (Actually, it does have more legroom in the back then both the Dacia Duster and the Kia Soul!)

So we've all said our piece. Fair enough. Points taken. Now then, I shall start a post to appease you all!:D
 
Okeedokey then. :D

The biggest problem I have with getting these individual issues resolved is that I have to take a day off work to get to the dealership and then hang around with the car until it has been looked a, whichcan be several hours. They do not supply courtesy cars. Well, they do, but you have to pay for them, but that is another matter.

The vehicle is due for it's first service very shortly and rather than take numerous days off work to get these individual faults sorted, I'm going to get them looked at at once. That is why there are so many faults built up over a period of time. However I have not made up any of the faults, or issues, if you like. They all exist on a single one year old vehicle, at one time.

I have the car on a three year personal hire contract, I think it's called. I am working with the sales department of the dealership to see when it may be possible to move across to a diesel without spending too much more money (if I decide that is an option) and also VERY patiently with the service department to find out why the MPG, (in my opinion) is so poor.

I do not believe that any of the faults was a good enough reason to reject the vehicle and I have an excellent working relationship with Fiat UK and my dealership and between us hopefully we can resolve the issues. But I am extremely disappointed with the car. And, as such, I would not, personally recommend a 500L twin-air to a potential purchaser.

The Fiatforum is an open forum. I have as much right to voice my opinions on the poor quality of my vehicle as much as anyone has to say how great their vehicles are. I have been a regular contributor to different sections of the Fiatforum over the years, almost always with helpful advice, tech tips, useful photos and positive feedback and support. Therefore I refuse to be berated because I have provided negative feedback about the 500L.

My 500L is a huge disappointment. I am working with Fiat to resolve the issues I have and hopefully once we have done these things, I will be able to tell other users where rattles are coming from, whether my MPG is actually poor and if it is how we resolved it and hopefully provide information on resolving other issues that have occured. Until then I can only caution others that these faults are there and may occur on their vehicle. And I may do that in a most disappointing tone.....

The fact is that my 500L has numerous faults. I have reported these in this forum. Yes, I'm moaning. That's ok, I'm allowed to. When some of these issues are resolved I can and will report with glee how we resolved them.

In the meantime, I will reiterate that I do appreciate all the support and helpful advice I have received since I've started posting in this section.

Bear with me. We may get some issues resolved. We may not.

And I am certainly not going to get in to a war of words on here with anyone. We are blessed in this section to have a dynamis and knowledgeable moderator, which is excellent. And all of you are Fiat enthusiasts as I am. I am absolutely certain you are all very enthusiastic about your individual vehicles. And I have no doubt that you are all great folk who are disappointed with my comments and, it may seem to you, apparent lack of action regarding my vehicle. Fair enough, your perogative too, my friends.

But in the meantime, (he says very tongue in cheek) it does say 'pandabloke' on the posts, so just don't read them if you don't want to. :p

And when I have a positive spin on this car, I will most certainly let you all know about it. (Actually, it does have more legroom in the back then both the Dacia Duster and the Kia Soul!)

So we've all said our piece. Fair enough. Points taken. Now then, I shall start a post to appease you all!:D

It is easy to understand somebodies frustration and annoyance when they get landed with a car that doesn't meet their expectations in terms of quality and particularly fuel consumption figures when a car is used for business use. They cost a shed load of money and we have the right to expect they go a long way to fulfil our expectations. I don't think anybody berated you though just put a bit of an alternative views as seen from the outside looking in perhaps.

I was a bit wary when we bought our first FIAT (a 500) as my thoughts about FIAT reliability and durability goes back to the old days of the 127 and the Strada, when they rusted away before your very eyes. We bit the bullet and went for it and never looked back TBH and we were quite happy to move on to a 500L.

If I had to say anything I would say the Serbian built 500L does not have the same solid overall quality feel of the Polish built 500. It is something I cannot put my finger on if I am totally honest but that feeling is there none the less. If it is a less well put together car I can only put this down to the local quality control and attention to detail in the respective factories.

I would though be happy to have another one (though definitely NOT a twin air) more likely a diesel, but that said we are considering a caravan purchase next year and given the abysmally low braked trailer towing limits for a 500L we would have to change. In fact we would probably have to change from a FIAT all together.

Any way I hope your probs. get sorted and remember to keep us posted.
 
Pandabloke, I appreciate your detailed reply and as I hope you know from my previous posts, it's nothing personal. I also know how it feels to have a car that disappoints, especially when you're someone who likes cars, as I've been there.

I just feel that based on the level of ill feeling it'd appear you feel towards the car, taking a morning off work would be time very well spent. It's good that you have a good relationship with Fiat UK & the dealer but from the lack of a new car after 12 months of investigation, I'd wager that neither Fiat or the dealer are trying as hard as they ought to be. This disappoints me because as a customer, they should be behaving more proactively for you.

The Courtesy Car charges are something I'd not accept, particularly when you're having to go back for several faults. I think now's the time to stop being nice and start being a bit of a nuisance. You don't need to be rude to Fiat or the dealer, but just push them, make them know you're expecting this to be resolved within weeks, not months now. I had similar issues with a car and creating a scene isn't in my nature either, but it seems in this World we now have to create a bit of noise to get heard, so I'd look after number one & make them work a bit for your money. Good luck!
 
I bought my wife a Twin Air 500 L MPW in July. I'm very happy with the economy. It all depends on how you drive it. I can get up to 53 mpg out of it and in the 40's around town. This is WAY better than her last car a 2007 1.6 petrol Zetec Ford C-Max. That did around 28 mpg in town and only as good as 34 - 35 mpg open road. And it was smaller inside. And handled worse. And had a bigger engine.

The Twin Air is €3k cheaper in Ireland too. So over all pleased.
 
My driving has now changed to a commute including around 7 miles of stop start avg. 20 MPH town driving with loads of traffic lights, 3 miles of steady country driving and probably another 7 miles of extremely hilly country driving. My opinion of the TA has now changed from quite positive to very negative.

The TwinAir can not cope with this properly in terms of economy and the MPG has collapsed - i.e. 36 MPG average. I am not driving it really gently but not driving it very hard either, just keeping up with traffic. The performance is fine. I'm sure a small diesel could beat this by >50%.

It has conked out a couple of times a few seconds after starting on cold mornings, seems like a software problem, it doesn't give itself enough revs to maintain idle.

If you almost stall it when pulling away and then sit, there is a software problem where the engine can sound as if it is going to stall/struggling with no pedal input, you have to prod the throttle to restore the idle. Seems like another software problem. Hardly ever happens of course but you could make it happen again and again if you wanted to.

I only have another month to live with it. The car is nice with a very nice spec and is a nice place to sit (well, apart from the seats..) but the engine is unsuitable for my new commute. A car engine should be well rounded and suitable for a range of different types of driving...
 
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I'm sure a small diesel could beat this by >50%.

I'd disagree, especially in the winter months, Diesels are awful for short journeys. Even in the summer I'd hate doing a journey of less than 10 miles in my Diesel as it still took that long to properly warm up and be at its best performance wise.
 
My driving has now changed to a commute including around 7 miles of stop start avg. 20 MPH town driving with loads of traffic lights, 3 miles of steady country driving and probably another 7 miles of extremely hilly country driving. My opinion of the TA has now changed from quite positive to very negative.

The TwinAir can not cope with this properly in terms of economy and the MPG has collapsed - i.e. 36 MPG average. I am not driving it really gently but not driving it very hard either, just keeping up with traffic. The performance is fine. I'm sure a small diesel could beat this by >50%.

It has conked out a couple of times a few seconds after starting on cold mornings, seems like a software problem, it doesn't give itself enough revs to maintain idle.

If you almost stall it when pulling away and then sit, there is a software problem where the engine can sound as if it is going to stall/struggling with no pedal input, you have to prod the throttle to restore the idle. Seems like another software problem. Hardly ever happens of course but you could make it happen again and again if you wanted to.

I only have another month to live with it. The car is nice with a very nice spec and is a nice place to sit (well, apart from the seats..) but the engine is unsuitable for my new commute. A car engine should be well rounded and suitable for a range of different types of driving...

Useful feedback thanks for posting.

We are starting to think about which model to get next time around even though it will be some time away yet and I am increasingly even less inclined towards a TA than I was six months ago.

To me (assuming they are still around at the time) it will be a toss up between another 1.4 0r a 1.3 Multijet Diesel.
 
Don't do it mate.

The real world MPG on hilly roads and in busy traffic is absolutely crap.

36 MPG indicated average for a tank driving normally (too busy to drive too fast..).

Really looking forward to March when the new car arrives :)
 
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