(G) 1.2 or TwinAir ?

Not been on here for quite a few years, when my other half ran a 1.1 Panda for about 6 years starting in 2008 when it was 4 years old. Proved a great car with the only real issue being a ecu failure, fixed at main dealer for £550.

She’s fancying a 500 and the budget will get us an early twinair car or the 1.2 4 cylinder.

So the simple question, what’s the pros and cons of the twinair versus the 1.2 ? The car will be kept for maybe 4 years and only cover local trips of 3-10 miles, perhaps with the odd 50 mile trip once in a while, with annual miles less than 5k.

Thanks in advance

Hi

I own 2 twinairs..
But if you are looking at a minimum of 8 years old..
I would go for the 1.2..its far less complex.. so simple..even ford mechanics can work on them

I pondered the same when was looking. My heart really wanted the fun of a TA but my head overruled and I went with the safe option that is the 1.2. My reasoning being simply that the 1.2 seems more reliable overall and can be serviced and maintained with little more than the most basic tools and by just about anyone. (I'd still love a TA though and often wish I'd thrown caution to the wind and got one instead!!)

Thanks for the replies.

Is the TA really that unreliable ? I know the 1.2 is basic and long lasting but either engine would get an annual oil n filters change.

What issues does the TA have ? Turbo and actuator wear ?

Is the TA not chain driven so not needing a change every 5 years unlike the 1.2 ?

I know the TA economy is no better than the 1.2 but for the miles and types of journeys this isn’t really an issue.

I think most will tell you there's more potential for more expensive problems with the TA engine than the 1.2.

The 1.2 has been tried and tested and on the forum we've seen pretty much all the problems it can offer, after all it's been around in various formats since the mid 80's.

The TA is a bit newer and less numerous and we haven't really seen lots of evidence of how good or bad it really is over the long term.

There has been a few reports of Multiair units failing which is quite a large, expensive and integral part of the engine and it's only common to Fiat/Alfa products, so your average local garage won't be happy to see problems with one of them.

There's been reports of the timing chain case leaking oil which is pretty difficult to get to.

There was a few reports early on in regards to problems with the actuator/wastegate operation, I think there was even a techincal bulletin from Fiat about it. My old 2014 4x4 TA's turbo fluttered a bit on the over run from time to time, I guessed it was a bit of play in the wastegate's spindle.

The 1.2 isn't without it's faults, but most are pretty easy and cheap to sort. They are only really niggles.

One of the biggest gripes of the 1.2 is the driveability of the euro 6 versions (from early 2014 onwards methinks).
I lot of owners didn't like the revisions made at this time as they seemed to strangle the engine a little and felt like it took control the rpm a little too much when lifting the clutch to pull away.

Our euro 6 1.2 Panda did it, lift the clutch and the rpm increased by it's self, try and clog the throttle too much at the same time and it would bog down a little.

We've an earlier euro 5 1.2 Panda and it drives miles better, much freer to rev and not the same clutch shenanigans. We kept it over the later euro 6 version.

The way the TA drives is a bit of an oddity, rev it hard and it'll sound quite viby and harsh and soon slams into the rev limiter in lower gears.

Put Put around at low rpm and it'll chug away quite happily as it's peak torque is produced at only 1900rpm. It takes a bit to get used to as you do need to work the gears a bit to keep it in that sweet spot, and your ears will be telling you to change down as it can sound quite laboured. You can chug in higher gears until you can almost count the piston strokes!

There is potential to squeeze some decent mpg out of them, but they are all too easy to rag in my opinion, the 1.2 doesn't take the same sort of effort to nurse them along.

The best advice is lots of test drives, both TA's and euro 5 and 6 versions of the 1.2 and see what you think.

A lot of excellent advice in this thread already.

Personally I wouldn't want to own a TA once out of manufacturers warranty. These were cars best bought new and traded away after three years or so.

Yes.

Whilst failures aren't exactly commonplace, they get reported here regularly enough, and many of them are not cheap to fix.

What clinches it is that technical support for this engine outside of the francised dealer network is essentially non-existent. There's no publicly available workshop manual, and nothing on this forum either. If anything does go wrong, you will likely have to take it to a main dealer, and that is definitely not where you want to be with a car of that age.

At this age and price point, you want your money to go into getting the most reliable car that's cheap and easy to repair, and in the 500 range, that's a 1.2, by a long way.

Even better, buy another Panda; you'll almost certainly get a far better car for any given price.

No
Just more complex..

And its only used in small FCA cars..

Not in a FORD like the 1242 is.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

My dilemma is that there’s a private sale TA Lounge less than 2 miles from me, at what seems like a good price, fresh Mot, service history and recent rear shocks. It’s a June 2014 car, priced at the same level as 2009/10 cars ; it’s got a few age related marks but nothing a paint pen and a good detailing wouldn’t sort. Perhaps too good to be true, or some problems waiting to happen.

Biggest problem is I’m recovering from eye surgery so I’m not exactly at my best to be rolling around on the ground / under the bonnet looking for issues

The twinair needs good oil.. a 'service history' isnt a guarantee of what has been used.. SOME are oil burners too

They also have a DualMassFlywheel

And that in itself CAN cause expensive failures..

As we've already said the 1242cc FIRE is a relatively tough motor

Head Gasket failure (and plastic thermostats..).along with Cambelt issues are the main grumbles engine.wise

Thanks again

I think I’m going to have a look at this one anyway, if nothing else it’ll give me an idea of the cosmetics of a 7 year old car. And it’ll be a good chance to have a check through my list of things to look out for on the 500!

We have a TA, bought new in 2014, 36000 miles now. Its the 105bhp sport button one, goes like stink. Free road tax. Whats not to like? We have had no issues with the engine although i change oil n filter every 9000 (not the service interval 18000) and the oil they recommend is a bit more expensive.
I didn't think i would like it as much as i do.

[quNothing, unless you are one of the unfortunate ones to run into problems.

There's a world of difference between a one owner car you've had from new, and a secondhand one where you can't be certain of its history - you've looked after your car carefully, and have every reason to have confidence in it. And in the relatively unlikely event that anything unfortunate were to happen, you've already had a great deal of value and pleasure from it.

The nightmare scenario is that someone pays several thousand pounds for a used car which is on the limit of their budget, and then three months later they have to choose between spending another £1500++ on a franchised dealer repair, or being offered £150 or so to scrap it. That's the situation I wouldn't want to see the OP find themselves in.

It's a private sale, so no warranty, and if it's unusually cheap, it might just be cheap for a reason.

A 1.2 is less of a risk; in part because if it does go wrong, there are far more options for a low cost repair.

Buyer beware, as they say.

No hard and fast right answer here. We've run both engines, and the 1.2 cost more due to the routine cambelt change. However, we got rid of both cars when they were 6 years old, so no experience of old ones.
I recently spoke to a friend who has run a 2012 TA from new, it must be approaching 100,000 miles now. No engine issues but he suffered a seized front caliper a couple of weeks ago, first breakdown. Ironically, his wife's 1.2 broke down a few years previously when the plastic thermostat housing split and it lost all its coolant.
My 2011 TA 85 had the turbo replaced as a precaution under warranty after a year, but that issue should have been sorted by 2014. Not sure when they fitted a DMF to 85s, I think all 105s have them.
Given my experience, I would go for the TA engine and accept the extra risk of it being a more complex design with a smaller knowledge base. I just love the performance and sound so much. For me, our 1.2 was too bland, and for similar money for a 2014 model I'd look for a fully serviced Kia with a bit of warranty left!
Good luck, let us know how you get on with your decision and purchase.

Had our 2015 TA 105 for 18 months now, Gave it an oil and filter change as soon as we got it, only do 5000 miles a year so oil and filter again afte a year.
SS didnt work when we got it do to condition of battery but came back to life when I was teaching my daughter in it. Which on a side note was a nightmare because of the gearing in it.
Put a full Stainless exhaust on it as trying to source a middle section was a nightmare & bloody expensive.
Apart from that & a couple of tyres, had no issues whatsoever.
I drive a 2017 Golf GTI but love getting in this with the sport button on and flinging it about.

Where did you get the stainless exhaust from, whilst i've ben under mine i've noticed its getting pretty rotten and i think it'll fail next MOT.