Technical Is this rust bad?

Currently reading:
Technical Is this rust bad?

Zoe14

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Messages
2
Points
1
So, I'm thinking of buying this 2013 500c, and the seller sent me some pictures of the rust near the wheel arches, and I was wondering if it's bad enough that I shouldn't consider it. I know that '07 onwards 500s tend to rust there quite a bit, so any advice would be appreciated. For reference, I live in Canada, where the winters are pretty rough. Thank you for your help!
 

Attachments

  • 2020-11-09 (1).jpg
    2020-11-09 (1).jpg
    551.1 KB · Views: 467
  • 2020-11-09.jpg
    2020-11-09.jpg
    385.2 KB · Views: 184
Last edited:
I've never noticed body rust on a 500 here in the UK, and they put salt on our roads in the winter. Anyone else seen rusty wings/wheel arches?
 
That looks like water has got in and been trapped behind those panels and blown outwards through the panel and paint.

I think there's a problem somewhere, like leaks, blocked drain holes or bad repairs.

The problem areas don't look like a quick cosmetic repair from the outside to me, it's from behind and not surface rust, you'll need to get behind the panel (cutting it out) and see what other damage there is and obviously stop it happening again.

I'm not sure how rare the 500c is in Canada, but here in the UK it's pretty common, common enough to walk away from that one and find a better one.
 
Hi and welcome to the forum.

Just walk away. That car is quite likely scrap; if it's that rusty there based just on time and harsh winters, there may be all sorts of other horrors lurking underneath (especially the rear beam, which might be a costly repair in North America).

The other possibility is a poorly executed body repair, in which case you also don't want anything to do with it.
 
Last edited:
On the other hand.. never having scrapped any car, regardless of its age or mileage;

If this 500 costs $500, it's not bad rust.. :D But if the seller wants $20,000 for it, then it's a bit expensive.

My analysis is that moisture has gotten between the inner and outer wings. At the back of the wheel arch, it may have drained out through gaps in the panel seams, or it may also have rusted that area too (it's behind the bumper/wheel arch liners so it may just not be visible). You would have to stick your head between the bumper and the rear wheel arch liners to have a look and be sure.

At the front of the wheel arch, the moisture will have followed the wheel arch curve down to the sills. The sills are high-strength steel and galvanized, so any water collecting in there won't do too much damage too soon.. (although even galvo' will corrode in time).

Inside the wing (the reverse may have less electro-plating on it) that moisture/mud/grit will collect and rot the panel from the inside out, as your photos show. If you tap a nail into the rust bubbles, it'll probably go through the panel fairly easily.

Now, anything is repairable. This one needs the paint taken off, and the area including all the rust sanded down. If the rust has caused small holes, those could be filled with body filler, once the metal has been treated to remove all the corrosion. If the holes join up to form "gashes" then it's a better long term solution to weld in sheet metal where the gash is.

In either case, you will have to respray the repair.. and the one panel that is the biggest PITA to re-spray is … you guessed it. The 3/4 panel runs from the bootlid to the trailing edge of the door.. from the sill all the way up to the roof strap. Big (expensive) spray job.

Alternatively, you could patch it (filler or new sheet metal welded in) and just spray that area (regardless that it will look visibly repaired) or just leave it and the car will b efine for a couple more years, although the rust bubbles will get worse/bigger and the paint will flake off and the sills will start corroding big time... it depends what you want to put up with/pay to fix.

You also need to work out why the seam on the wheel arches has started leaking in the first place. If the car has no rear wheel arch liners fitted, that would do it.. but 500s have no rear wheel arch liners because they get removed to fix accident damage and then lost/forgotten and not replaced.

Or it could have wheel arch liners fitted but the car was hit in the rear hard enough to deform both outer wings (the boot floor too, I'd imagine) and wrench it away from the inner wings. Presumably then it was straightened out and "repaired" but without anyone sealing the separation between the inner and outer wings, leading to this problem.

So.... if you want a nice, tidy 500 that's not going to need any effort to keep in good condition, this one is not for you. If it's dirt cheap and/or your dad owns a body shop and you like being hands on... then give it a punt. It needs remedial works soon though, before the sills notice all the incoming moisture and start to rot too. That would be a whole different world of aggro'.


Ralf S.
 
Last edited:
My two penneth worth...walk on by! Fiats are not renowned for their super duper corrosion resistance properties and if you can see that on the surface then the underlying conditions are gonna be far worst! Plenty more fish and all that!
 
I noticed very slight bubbles in the area marked on our 09 car

Well, that is a prime target area for collecting minor dings and scrapes, so a poor panel repair prior to your getting the car is a distinct possibility.

On a modern car, seeing visible rust on a panel is a bit like seeing a rat in the daytime - the problem is likely much greater than you might think.

You've reminded me of that time in the seventies when, on account of all the industrial unrest, large quantities of raw bodyshells were left in outside storage for months on end, then superficially cleaned before painting. Mk3 Cortinas were particularly bad for it; you could literally peel the paint off in large chunks from cars less than three years old.
 
Last edited:
I live in Canada, where the winters are pretty rough

If I lived in a climate where the winters were that harsh, I wouldn't consider a Fiat. I'd suggest you look instead at a marque that's better able to withstand heavily salted roads.

As an aside, my late father lived for many years in Toronto, and retired to Vancouver Island. When he got there, he found that none of the local dealers would even consider part exchanging an Ontario car, simply on account of the quantity of salt they used on the roads there.
 
Last edited:
If I lived in a climate where the winters were that harsh, I wouldn't consider a Fiat. I'd suggest you look instead at a marque that's better able to withstand heavily salted roads.

As an aside, my late father lived for many years in Toronto, and retired to Vancouver Island. When he got there, he found that none of the local dealers would even consider part exchanging an Ontario car, simply on account of the quantity of salt they used on the roads there.
Ok, thank you for that. I'll look into more rust-resistant cars.
 
I don't think they galvanising them these days but rather use electronic phoritic coating as it gives a smoother finish

Hmm, there's an area just behind each front wheel/sill end, the paint has completely gone but there's no rust and looks "grey" crystalline so assumed galvanized, might have to pull off the boot trim inside, the car has had no accident damage to the rear bar a new bumper whilst we owned the car(bump was last year, surprised the 3rd parties insurance repaired a ten year old car) due to someone driving into it. I will take a better picture tomorrow.
 
Fiat started paying more attention to rust resistance and overall quality from the early 2000's , so the body is zinc plated and very resistant to rust if washed regularly from the bottom. Here in Finland the conditions are similar to the northern Canada and I very rarely if ever see a rusty Fiat anywhere.

Just walk away and buy a better one, because they're cheap anyway. This one might have issues with rust but many others won't.
 
Back
Top