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Old 28-04-2019   #1
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Gearbox/clutch problem

I have a friend with a manual 1.2 500 and all of a sudden the car will not go into gear when the engine is running.

It will go into gear when the engine is off. She says that the pedal doesnít feel any different.

I got them to try dipping the clutch with the engine off putting it in gear and then starting the engine. It did that fine but then couldnít get it out of gear.

They eased their foot off the clutch and it moved forward as normal.

Any ideas? Master or Slave cylinder?
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Last edited by typecastboy; 28-04-2019 at 19:58.
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Old 28-04-2019   #2
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

Fluid level still ok?
Leak at quick connecter?
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Last edited by chris3234; 28-04-2019 at 20:15.
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Old 28-04-2019   #3
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

Change the fluid, then check for leaks? both our master and slave leaked a small amount, the master could not be seen until removed.
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Old 28-04-2019   #4
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4270.JPG
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Size:	631.4 KB
ID:	199949she has sent me this picture. Iím assuming there must be a leak. Iíve told her to get some fluid, top it up and pump the pedal to get any trapped air out. Hopefully that will at least get her to the garage.
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Old 29-04-2019   #5
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Quote Originally Posted by typecastboy View Post
Attachment 199949she has sent me this picture. Iím assuming there must be a leak. Iíve told her to get some fluid, top it up and pump the pedal to get any trapped air out. Hopefully that will at least get her to the garage.
Once the air is in it won't pump out so it may not work?
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Old 29-04-2019   #6
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

A knackered Slave would be not returning the pedal (it would stay on the bulkhead) so it's probably not broken... but the symptoms (since the car runs okay and no noises reported when she puts the clutch in and out) are like those of a badly adjusted clutch.

The photo looks like a low fluid level so my guess is there's air in the hydraulics. Pressing the pedal is just compressing the air rather than lifting the clutch (just like spongey brakes) so she needs to fill up the reservoir and bleed the clutch to get it back.

It's not a job you can do without any tools or a bit of mechanical knowlege... although it's probably a 10 minute job in itself.

The low fluid level is worrying though. If she doesn't have a leak from the slave cylinder (unlikely, as above) then either her brakes are on the metal or the clutch is almost worn out, to have reduced the fluid level so much. Fluid level will drop as those components wear, to take up the extra movement.

So first check for clutch circuit leaks (could be anywhere.. but usually at the clutch end) and then also check the brake pad thickness.

If it's the clutch that's on the way out that's more a case of just waiting for it to go, then getting it replaced. If the slave is an internal one (concentric) then replace that at the same time as the clutch ... less pain if it packs up just a few weeks after the clutch replacement).


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Old 29-04-2019   #7
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

We had a leak where the pipe entered the slave, I replace slave and master(for ease and speed) finding the master had signs of leaking too inside the car once removed.
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Old 29-04-2019   #8
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

Thanks everyone. I havenít heard back from her today so Iím hoping topping up might have worked.

Will update when she gets it sorted.
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Old 29-04-2019   #9
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

Quote Originally Posted by typecastboy View Post
Thanks everyone. I havenít heard back from her today so Iím hoping topping up might have worked.

Will update when she gets it sorted.
For peace of mind I'd take a look at it or have someone else check it over?
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Old 29-04-2019   #10
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

Quote Originally Posted by John202020 View Post
For peace of mind I'd take a look at it or have someone else check it over?


Beyond my knowledge. I suggested she got it to the garage I use if topping up the fluid works.
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Old 29-04-2019   #11
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

clutch Does not appear to be disengaging, could be slave or master, don’t these use a common reservoir as the brakes ? So if leaking it should be obvious.

Another possibility is the clutch is stuck/seized or contaminated so it’s swollen.
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Old 29-04-2019   #12
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
Donít these use a common reservoir as the brakes ?
No separate for clutch and brakes( brakes on the right beside the battery)
Click image for larger version

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ID:	199961
Click image for larger version

Name:	20160715_120248.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	3.94 MB
ID:	199962
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Old 13-05-2019   #13
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

Update on this. Garage has said clutch needs replacing and possibility of the gearbox too as itís making a bit of a noise. Worst case scenario but hopefully not both. Will update when done.
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Old 13-05-2019   #14
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

Quote Originally Posted by John202020 View Post
No separate for clutch and brakes( brakes on the right beside the battery)
Attachment 199961
Attachment 199962
At least on the 1.2
The 1.3 has the clutch Res right above the brake one on the right 😊
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Old 13-05-2019   #15
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Re: Gearbox/clutch problem

Quote Originally Posted by typecastboy View Post
Update on this. Garage has said clutch needs replacing and possibility of the gearbox too as it’s making a bit of a noise. Worst case scenario but hopefully not both. Will update when done.
Woah! hold on there! Earlier picture you posted shows an almost empty clutch fluid reservoir. Lack of brake fluid and air in the system is going to give you exactly the symptoms you have.

Now, with out any remedial action having been taken, someone is telling you you need a whole new clutch and maybe a gearbox too! Well they might be right but I would bet on there being a leak somewhere in the hydraulic system - maybe at the quick connector, maybe a worn slave cylinder, maybe the master too. Whatever. This is what's causing your immediate problem.

I would take a systematic approach to this. Sort out the leak first. Even if master cylinder and slave both need doing, which is quite possible, these jobs are relatively simple and don't involve any major stripping out of components. Having sorted out this problem I suspect you'll end up with a working clutch. Having done this the clutch operation can be properly tested and an opinion formed as to it's condition - you can't see it, you'd need to remove the gearbox to do that so you really need to be able to drive it properly to form an opinion. If it then turns out that you need a clutch the gearbox will have to come out to do this and the slave cylinder will have to be separated from the bell housing again but only two bolts hold it on so you're not really incurring any additional costs by doing the hydraulics first.

The gearbox condition is quite another matter. Have the garage been able to road test the car? Wiggling and spinning wheels or driving the 'box with the car up on a ramp can often be miss leading and produce confusing results. I find road testing, listening to the box when idling in neutral and working the box up and down the gears allows a much more reliable diagnosis.

How old is the car and what mileage? our 1.2 Panda is a 2010 car with low 60,000 miles on it. 'Box is lovely and quiet. I just changed the gearbox oil and if you have a 'box which is only slightly noisy with some mileage on it changing the oil sometimes has almost "miraculous" effects (I myself don't like to go much over 50,000 miles which is why I have changed the Panda's oil almost as soon as we bought it last year). If you do this be very particular about using exactly the right oil - our Panda runs Petronus Tutela Transmission Technyx 75W-85 to API GL4 plus. Be very careful with transmission fluids it can be disastrous to use the wrong spec'd oil.

At the least I would be seeking a second opinion on this before committing to what is likely to be a pretty substantial financial commitment!

Hope that helps? Good luck with it all. Hope it just turns out to be a hydraulics problem.
Kind regards
Jock
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Last edited by Pugglt Auld Jock; 13-05-2019 at 12:20.
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