Hi all.

I am new to the Forum and bought my daughter a 500 1.3L Multijet diesel in the summer. It has been fine until recently when she had the engine management and ommisions lights come on. Also there was white smoke coming out.

The fault codes indicating failing turbo. Had that changed but the garage went to do a clean out and re-gen and found that the fuel had got into the sump and it had all got into the inlet manifold and everywhere causing damage to the engine.

Basically the car is knackered! I brought this car for her for passing her test. She's only 17 and her first car and she's devastated as we haven't got the money to replace it.

What I want to know is. Having done a bit of research, this is a common fault with this model and Fiat know about it. If I went back to them - Will they turn me away, OR are they legally obliged to do something about it???


Here's hoping all someone will be able to help me. Thank you in advance!!

Did you buy it new?

What mileage has it done since purchase?

D

JakeT said:

Hi all.

I am new to the Forum and bought my daughter a 500 1.3L Multijet diesel in the summer. It has been fine until recently when she had the engine management and ommisions lights come on. Also there was white smoke coming out.

The fault codes indicating failing turbo. Had that changed but the garage went to do a clean out and re-gen and found that the fuel had got into the sump and it had all got into the inlet manifold and everywhere causing damage to the engine.

Basically the car is knackered! I brought this car for her for passing her test. She's only 17 and her first car and she's devastated as we haven't got the money to replace it.

What I want to know is. Having done a bit of research, this is a common fault with this model and Fiat know about it. If I went back to them - Will they turn me away, OR are they legally obliged to do something about it???


Here's hoping all someone will be able to help me. Thank you in advance!!

Click to expand...

Hi,
Welcome to Fiat Forum,
Your description indicates multiple issues. How old is the car and how many miles has it done? What sort of garage did the repair work, Fiat dealer, specialist or random garage?
What damage has been caused?

Unless it was a very cheap car it might still be worth repairing, a used, warranted engine can be had for £600-900 some for less.

Robert G8RPI.

Hi Robert.
The car has had full Fiat service history. It’s 2010 registered,
Done 69k miles and the problem was looked at in a very good local garage. Garage said that some rings have gone but not 100% on the extent yet as he’s still checking.
I know Fiat are aware of the fault but is there anything I can do as I’ve lost nearly £4K and can’t afford a lot more

Jake

8 years and 69k miles old? Not a hope in hell Fiat will do anything for you.

Sounds like you need to find a better garage, though, this current outfit sound like cowboys.

If you bought it from a car dealer, they are responsible for any major fault that develops within six months.

This might get more attention in the 500 section

Officina red said:

This might get more attention in the 500 section

Click to expand...

I've added the 500 prefix to make this post appear in the right place

Officina red said:

If you bought it from a car dealer, they are responsible for any major fault that develops within six months.

Click to expand...

Not quite.

There is the reasonable expectation test plus you’d have had to have taken it back or reported the fault to them before you got John Wayne to fiddle with it.

JakeT said:

Hi

Click to expand...

Hi.

Welcome to the forum. Sorry that it's in such sad circumstances.

JakeT said:

Basically the car is knackered! I brought this car for her for passing her test. She's only 17 and her first car and she's devastated as we haven't got the money to replace it.

Click to expand...

Condolences. Spending good money on an older secondhand car which goes on to develop major problems is a car buyer's worst nightmare.

After 8yrs and almost 70,000 miles, Fiat have no obligation to you whatsoever and the collective experience of this forum would suggest it's not worth trying in this case. I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but there's no point spending time and energy going down a path which essentially has zero chance of success.

You might, just, have a legal case against the supplying dealer - we'd need to know more details of the cirumstances of the purchase; when exactly you purchased it, how much you paid, and who you bought it from. If you bought it privately, you have no comeback against the seller.

Keep posting and collectively we'll try to help you find a way forward. You still have options; the last thing I want to see is you throwing more hard earned money at trying to recover what is already lost.

Officina red said:

This might get more attention in the 500 section

Click to expand...

I've moved this thread into the 500 section for that very reason.

JakeT said:

Hi Robert.
The car has had full Fiat service history. It’s 2010 registered,
Done 69k miles and the problem was looked at in a very good local garage. Garage said that some rings have gone but not 100% on the extent yet as he’s still checking.
I know Fiat are aware of the fault but is there anything I can do as I’ve lost nearly £4K and can’t afford a lot more

Jake

Click to expand...

Hi.
Virtually all DPF equipped diesels dump fuel in to burn off exhaust deposits.. in doing so.. this can addd diesel fuel to the engine oil.
(See youtube for runaway diesel engine)

Biggest issue with this is NOT resetting the ECU properly after oil changes.
This means more attempted regens..and more fuel being added. (Your white smoke points to this)

If the FIAT dealer who did your last service isnt playing ball. Get on to the Italian customer services team.

The engines are pretty durable. And have been in service for 15 years.

So :
1. Get the oil changed and all parameters reset properly
2. Consider a replacement engine.

1. Will let you know if 2. is necessary.

Where in the UK are you based?

Charlie

As above also a simple compression test will tell you what the condition of the rings are. Don't write off the engine quite yet, oil in the inlet possibly came from failed turbo seals once replaced and a cleaned (inc intercooler) then try as above, does your daughter do a lot of miles like 10k+ year?

I would be sceptical of there being significant engine damage.

Change the oil, look at replacing the Filter and see how you get on.

The little 1.3 multijet is a fairly hardy engine by anyone's standards and they take an amazing amount of abuse. I drove mine with no coolant in it for 20 miles and it did absolutely no harm at all.

There is almost always going to be a residue of oil in the inlet manifold, if fuel has gotten into the oil than its not surprising that fuel has gotten their as well.

My point exactly.

My gp mj.. is worth less that JakeT
Was quoted for an used engine.

There's always a little oil in the air inlet system, the crank case breather plumbs into it, so it throws it out of that and sucks it through the pipe work, intercooler and inlet manifold.

Oil dilution due to the failure to ignite the post combustion injection (that burns the soot in the DMF to ash) is common to nearly every modern diesel.
If it's not completing it's regen cycle, the unburnt fuel passed the piston rings into the sump.

If the sump is full enough of oil/fuel, it'll throw it out of the breather, fill up the intake and run away on the stuff until it goes bang!

It sounds like is hasn't got that far yet so find a local diesel specialist and book it in for a diagnostic, you might be lucky and the damage isn't as bad as all that, but for relatively low cost, you should be sure and a diesel specialist is the place to go.

I think it's quite apparent Fiat won't help you and you've had it longer than 6 months? so the dealer that sold it to you won't be bother with it either.
Local garages aren't the best places for a diesel problem like this.

Goudrons said:

Oil dilution due to the failure to ignite the post combustion injection (that burns the soot in the DMF to ash) is common to nearly every modern diesel.
If it's not completing it's regen cycle, the unburnt fuel passed the piston rings into the sump.

Click to expand...

Very strange explanation! Fuel injected by means of these post injections isn't supposed to burn in the cylinder at all. This fuel shall burn on the DOC (Diesel Oxidation Catalyst) that is upstream of the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). Because these post injections are injected when the piston is already way down, it is absolutely normal that a part of the fuel will get in the sump. If you drive the oil warm enough, then most of the fuel will evaporate and leave the oil between the regenerations. Problems occur when you don't drive the oil warm enough or when regenerations occur more often than normal. Then the evaropation can't keep up with fuel entering the sump during regenerations. This is the main reason why people who drive mainly short trips shall never choose a car with a modern diesel engine.

I get the impression that the op. Isnt going to respond.

Little point us continuing to pad out the already clearcut course of action.

Hi guys.

Sorry for the lack of response but I've been trying to get a second opinion which I've now had. It's had a compression test and it failed miserably! the engine is damaged and the garage is going to print me a report as I have no idea about mechanics.

I've been a little blinded by all the different comments on here and I thank you all for your input. I think it's clear that I chose the wrong car for my daughter. She only does short journey's which is not good for the diesel models. I would quite like to know what would be the best model to get her. She is only 17 so the Abarth is out of the question lol . Which would be the best possible petrol model to get. She likes the gadgets but in only a basic version for insurance purposes, is this possible? Also, I need to sell her current one as a non runner. Obviously it's got the engine problem, but other than that it's a lovely car with full leather etc, etc.. Where would be the best place to sell it. Ebay or Gumtree maybe. If anyone can help I would appreciate it. Jake

JakeT said:

Hi guys.

Sorry for the lack of response but I've been trying to get a second opinion which I've now had. It's had a compression test and it failed miserably! the engine is damaged and the garage is going to print me a report as I have no idea about mechanics.

I've been a little blinded by all the different comments on here and I thank you all for your input. I think it's clear that I chose the wrong car for my daughter. She only does short journey's which is not good for the diesel models. I would quite like to know what would be the best model to get her. She is only 17 so the Abarth is out of the question lol . Which would be the best possible petrol model to get. She likes the gadgets but in only a basic version for insurance purposes, is this possible? Also, I need to sell her current one as a non runner. Obviously it's got the engine problem, but other than that it's a lovely car with full leather etc, etc.. Where would be the best place to sell it. Ebay or Gumtree maybe. If anyone can help I would appreciate it. Jake

Click to expand...

typecastboy might take it as a project


Robert G8RPI.