typecastboy said:

I agree to a degree, however the one you pointed out over 3 years ago was very minor. It was my first one and it was a learning curve. I don’t touch ones that have had crumpled boots anymore. I was lucky with that one it was very minor despite your comments at the time.

I buy spares from reputable places. I have to for a start to make as sure as I can I am not buying stolen parts. I buy from people who professionally break cars. I don’t see any problem in buying front airbags from a car that has been broken because of a rear smash. Any airbag could plug into a safety computer and not fire, doesn’t have to be a second hand one. I’ve seen plenty of cars where I have been a amazed that the bags haven’t fired and equally minor damaged cars where they have.

Two cars of the 30 I have broken up as the damage was too bad in my opinion and I would not have been happy repairing them. Some are worse than others but generally they look a lot worse than they are.

Cat cars are not for everyone, I get that, but when I sell a car to someone for getting on for half the forecourt price, where they otherwise couldn’t have afforded it, why not. I bought one once that had already been repaired but I took it apart to make sure it was ok.

I would certainly not ever put a car back on the road that wasn’t safe.

Click to expand...

As was said previously, when any part of the crash structure is damaged, it should be replaced and not simply bent back into shape, it might look right, but it won’t perform as well in a crash as it would have done out of the factory. I used to work for a company that supplied body in white tooling to the likes of JLR, Daimler Benz and Ford. We had to develop specific repair tooling because you couldn’t simply bend the car back into shape and expect it to perform to specification.

This guy does work that is absolutely stunning, but I wouldn’t want to have an accident in any of the cars he’s fixed, even if it looks right.

[ame]https://youtu.be/4_enrYPJYBI[/ame]

I’m not accusing you of knowingly putting dangerous cars out there, I’m saying that it’s very easy to unwittingly put a dangerous car out there in good faith.

jrkitching said:

A competent inspector would probably spot a panel beaten boot floor, but there's no way to fully test airbag functionality, which is why the code of practice for motor vehicle salvage requires such parts to be destroyed and never reused, irrespective of the category of the salvage.

However, a quick search on ebay will show that the reuse of used SRS components is widespread and that the code of practice is often not followed. It's generally recognised within the industry that effectively stopping the practice of reusing SRS parts will require a change in legislation.

The SRS is a system of last resort; if it fails in the critical case, there's no backstop and you're dead. Taking chances by replacing SRS parts with salvage of unknown pedigree is, quite literally, gambling with someone's life.

I've seen the results of one real-world study which tested used airbag components to destruction and found an average failure rate of one in 200, even after being checked beforehand using all known methods short of destroying them.

Even getting access to the technical information necessary to work safely on these systems is problematic, as we've seen in other threads. Manufacturers change component versions and specifications from time to time; how is someone outside the dealer network able to verify the interoperability of a set of secondhand parts manufactured to different specifications at different times?

Click to expand...

Generally when stuff is completely incompatible, a manufacturer will do a few things such as poke yoke’ing the connectors or ensuring that the ECU flags a DTC and/or warning light.

But you hear about people swapping connectors all the time because they don’t match up...

People are always horrified when I mention that we have hundred of cars, all which will end up being crushed, and all components on them destroyed.

People say it’s a waste and I agree somewhat, but imagine if Some special brew inactive airbags which won’t trigger a warning light manage to get into the supply chain. With the rather hard life the cars have, I wouldn’t want any of the parts from them on any of my cars! I had a car pop a coolant pipe a couple of months ago. With where we were we had to drive it another mile or so from where it went pop. It didn’t overheat and has been successfully repaired, but would I want any of the components from that engine getting out in the wild after 150,000km + of sheer and utter abuse from people with varying levels of mechanical sympathy? No thanks!

Around 10 cars a year?
This brings the trader / business question up. It can impact many things. Do you have a business or limited company? Have you told HMRC you are running a business? The local authority may be interested too, change of use, repairing cars in a residential area etc. It can also affect insurance, household, life and car if you are running a business from home or "working in the motor trade". You may also need public liability insurance.
It's a bit of a grey area, but if it all goes pear-shaped it's too late....
Buying and selling with the intention of making a profit makes it a business. There is also a often quoted "6 cars a year and you are a dealer" rule of thumb, but I've never seen a reliable source for that.
Problem with cars is they are fairly visible. Even if you get on with you current neighbours, a new one who does not like it could get you in a lot of trouble if you have been working "under the radar". An accident and a "ambulance chasing" lawyer could spell a major disaster if you don't have liability insurance. This could lead to loss of property and wages sequestration for years in a worst case scenario.


Again, your choice, but it has to be said.


Robert G8RPI.

Back to the original topic, is the rear quarter panel damaged?

g8rpi said:

It's a bit of a grey area...

Click to expand...

HMRC does not stipulate numbers when assessing whether somebody is actually running a business. Their rules state that anyone who "carries out a transaction or a series of transactions with a view to making a profit" is defined as carrying on a trade.

In reality, most people who only own one car at a time and change that car frequently, will generally not be looked on as a car trader.

However, if anyone is going about buying batches of cars, holding them in stock, advertising the car sales regularly etc, then it could be held that they are indeed in business.

It is up to the individual to notify HMRC that they have commenced trading and there are fines and penalties for failure to notify. There are also fines, penalties and ultimately prison sentences for those who fail to complete self assessment tax returns when they should and notifying HMRC of the profits thay are making and paying the Income Tax and Class 4 National Insurance arising on those profits.

Insurance could bring problems as most private car policies specifically exclude use for any purpose in connection with the motor trade.

John202020 said:

Back to the original topic, is the rear quarter panel damaged?

Click to expand...

Yes it is to the tune of about £300.

It might be wise to consider what things are best to post on a forum

I think when people start going off on a tangent about if someone is a trader, if they have appropriate insurances for what they are doing in terms of personal indemnity and trade motor insurance, then starts going off even further and starts talking about HMRC and Tax obligations, Clearly they have gone well beyond the remit of this post, the forum and elevate it to the stage where its clearly more a personal attack on another member of the forum for whatever reason. It doesn't affect you and as far as I'm aware he's not sold any of these cars via the forum, so trading rules don't apply.

I won't dream of demanding to know what anyone on here's tax affairs looks like, nor even question them, It means nothing in the context of a car forum or even if someone is trading cars if they are doing anything illegal the tax man will catch up with that one.

On the other side of things, totally understand Maxi's point of view he works for a company that makes and sells new cars, every car that is written off is a potential new sale and he works in a department that works very hard to make cars that are safe.

With an accident damaged car or even a car that you buy used from the main dealer, you cannot 100% guarantee that car hasn't had an airbag replaced at some point, you can't guarantee its not been in an accident even a very significant accident and been put back on the road by someone not wanting to make a claim on their own insurance.
In fact there are many many would be Cat B and even A cars back on the road because no one made a claim, does this make those cars dangerous?

One example I can think of was the Gas Monkey episodes where they rebuilt a Ferrari F40, over $100,000 in spare parts and multiple specialists later the car was back on the road and sold for a lot of money to someone who knew the history of car, the repairs where overseen and fully signed off by Ferrari to be to their standard.

On the flip side, a chap had a bump in his Tesla Model S, the insurance company had it repaired, the damage was minor and it was a bit of paint to a scuffed bumper, and some electrical bits Behind the bumper got squashed, all new parts used, insurance approved repairer. Once Tesla caught wind however they invalidated the warranty, the also stopped any future updates to the car and banned it from their supercharger network, effectively making the car worthless. The insurance company had repaired the car to an acceptable standard but Tesla didn't like that they had repaired it.

You can argue any car that is repaired even minor repairs or even changing a wheel on your drive may not be as safe as if it had been done by the manufacturer, but people pays their money and take their choice.
If your personal opinion is you won't buy a repaired car, then that's fine, however, it doesn't mean you can write off all cars that had been repaired as "unsafe"

Officina red said:

It might be wise to consider what things are best to post on a forum

Click to expand...

I’d like to think that no one is vindictive enough to report someone on here to HMRC or anything... I don’t mention my place of work because I know I’m rather popular and I don’t want my forum life and work life colliding.

It is worth mentioning that as it’s been 30 cars, the OP should probably consider business insurance if he doesn’t already have it. An issue with a car is more possible as time goes on and if it was serious, it has the opportunity to make you homeless.

AndyRKett said:

On the other side of things, totally understand Maxi's point of view he works for a company that makes and sells new cars, every car that is written off is a potential new sale and he works in a department that works very hard to make cars that are safe.

Click to expand...

I also think it’s strange to ask about someone’s tax affairs, I’d mention what their obligations are, but I’d leave it there. I’m less worried about someone potentially leaving HMRC short a couple of quid than I am of someone possibly selling cars with safety equipment that might not work when needed.

I’m not bothered about people repairing cars, I have a job regardless and sales figures don’t really make a difference to me. We don’t make millions of cars and people will buy one because they want one. Plus I do despise waste, so as long as it’s done safely, of course cars should be put back on the road of safe to do so ?

I wasn't making a comment about any individual's tax position, nor making a judgement about whether any individual was a trader; what I posted was simply intended to be an informative response to g8rpi's post summarising the tax position in general as best I understand it.

I've edited my original post to make it clearer that my comment isn't targetted at anyone specifically.

We’re all a little tetchy aren’t we! Must be the weather!