After four or five years of faithful service with our 500 Lounge (2008 model, 127,000km), I'm looking at an Abarth 500C tomorrow. It's quite a bit younger (2014) and lower kms (33,000).

I know there is an Abarth forum, but I wondered if any early Lounge drivers might have had the experience of the Abarth 500C and will know whether the suspension and ride quality is generally better, generally worse, or about the same?

We use our 500 for a mixture of around town and also some relatively long trips (now that we have moved to NZ's Bay of Plenty/Tauranga/Papamoa Beach), including a few fairly steep and winding roads where the 1.4 Lounge is working hard in 3rd gear.

The 'C' wouldn't have been our choice, but unfortunately a manual gearbox is not acceptable for us. The MTA (the Abarth name for Dualogic) appears to be only available in the C and not in the tin-top. Unless, of course, we tripled the price to get one of those Tributo versions.

I've read that supposedly the C has softer suspension than the standard car. I'd appreciate a bit more refinement on the somewhat rugged roads we have, but I guess the pitching and bouncing would be best removed as well, so just having soft suspension wouldn’t work.

Anyway, if anyone here has driven both the Lounge and the Abarth 500C, I'd appreciate your thoughts


Thanks,
-Alex

Well, I can answer that one - teehee
Funny how whatever you think will be the problem WON’T be the problem...

I had a Punto Mk2 Sporting once. Also Alfa Romeo 147GTA and a beautiful Gtv 3.0V6. And before all those, there was that time I refilled the shocks on an Uno with engine oil. What did all those cars have in common? A ridiculously hard ride unsettled by every little ridge in the road. Jittery on corners. Heavy thumps and crashes.

Turns out that an Abarth 500C has a far more carefully tuned suspension than a standard 500 Lounge - pre-2010 500 Lounge anyway. The Abarth sits much flatter, less fore-and-aft pitching, and is unphased by mid-corner jitters or bumps, absorbing them without disturbance. Rides like a car with far more suspension travel. Soft when it needs to be. Balanced. Poised. Less body roll. Better weighting in the steering.

It’s a superb transformation which I presume is down to more expensive shock absorbers (dampers) and carefully-chosen spring rates to give more compliance than, say, a Golf GTi, and yet also better body control than the early 500.

The test-drive was far more exciting than I expected, mainly because the accelerator pedal suddenly stopped responding at all. The engine management light had been on since the start, but I was told that was an oxygen sensor fault. I suppose it’s when the throttle response returns that is really most exciting. After a few times, you just leave it alone.

As we idled down to a halt, the owner offered to drive instead. Top tip; don’t pay for a roller coaster ride, just get a motorcycle racer to take you on a drive through the hills, on a wet day, with ‘hiFly’ front tyres. Even the flashing of the gearbox failure light went largely unnoticed, as I wondered where the escape route would be.

So obviously, performance is a big difference and the shifts from the MTA (Selespeed) seemed keen, especially on acceleration. But for me, the big difference was that compliant suspension (felt like the car was about 10cm closer to the road), those supportive seats, and that chunky little steering wheel.

I’d like to buy this little car, really I would, but it is very expensive at more than three times the value of our trusty old 500 Lounge... and now I wonder how the soft top will cope with living outdoors. I think it should be OK, and I’m probably not the first person in the world that has to keep one outdoors. And at least the rear window is glass. I used to joke with my Alfa Spider that I’d back out into the street and listen for the beeps - not from any sensors, but from other motorists that you simply couldn’t see through that wobbly wrinkled plastic rear window.

Also, there’s more headroom with the Abarth 500C’s top closed than there is in the Lounge (that optional electric opening glass sunroof robs valuable height and leaves my head scraping the headlining). So it’s actually more spacious in the Abarth 500C. But it is very black in there compared to the Lounge. The airy charm of the 500 (that chequered sepia pattern, those retro dials) has been lost. Instead, everything’s blacked out in that ‘sporty’ way and even with red leather seats, the black door trims have a black insert. I guess in fine weather, all would be redeemed with the top open. As long as there’s nothing to put in the boot

Meanwhile I’ve given our 500 a wash... just in case.

-Alex

A regular, at least annual, clean and water-repellent treatment should keep the roof in good condition. UV is a greater threat than rain so a cover is a good investment, certainly in Oz anyway.

Reversing with the roof right down will take you back to your Spider days - rearward visibility not being one of the 500C's strong points...

This pne's quick and easy to fit - doesn't take up much room in the boot either.

Interesting feedback, Alex. We changed our 2011 Lounge (Twinair engine) for a 500X last year. I'm pleased with it, but the wife misses the 500 and is considering changing her Suzuki SUV for a 500C. Performance isn't an issue for her, so she's browsing everything from 1.2s up. Of course, when I browse I look at TAs and Abarths! It may not happen for a while as having 4 doors and reasonable space for 4 is useful with the grandchildren commitments we have at the moment, but we can dream.....

Piccolo Nero e Bella said:

This pne's quick and easy to fit - doesn't take up much room in the boot either.

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Thanks! Good thought with regard to the UV. At least I’ve got a little while to organise a cover before summer arrives

I was fearful the canvas would turn green but then I remembered that I don’t live in the damp, foggy, lush Waikato any more - I’m at the beach - it’s a different climate here! More sun even in winter.

As for having the top right down - oh dear it looks like an old pram hopefully the charms will grow on me, I’ve always hated those cabrios that aren’t sports cars (Golf cabrio, Mini cabrio, Morris Minor cabrio, etc.) can’t believe I’m thinking of buying one...!

-Alex

TrevC said:

Interesting feedback, Alex. We changed our 2011 Lounge (Twinair engine) for a 500X last year. I'm pleased with it, but the wife misses the 500 and is considering changing her Suzuki SUV for a 500C. Performance isn't an issue for her, so she's browsing everything from 1.2s up. Of course, when I browse I look at TAs and Abarths! It may not happen for a while as having 4 doors and reasonable space for 4 is useful with the grandchildren commitments we have at the moment, but we can dream.....

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Thanks, yes, even if performance isn’t an issue, it’s definitely worth trying out an Abarth just to feel the difference they’ve achieved in how the car feels. I’ve driven lots of small cars over the years (mainly as rentals) and the standard 500 was always the best of the bunch, but the Abarth feels more ‘grown up’ again and handles like a car from the next size up.

But the price...! For the asking price of this four-year-old 500C, I could actually afford a brand-new 500X off the showroom floor... something’s amiss there as the 500X comes with a similar engine and a lot more equipment... but I prefer a smaller car and don’t have the children or grandchildren to fill it up.

-Alex

I have had a twin air lounge and a 595c. The ride on the 595c is stiffer, less wobbly but the rear springs are a touch too soft still. If you get 16" alloys that is the best compromise as 17" are a little hard.

The issue with the rear means at fast speeds around a bend it feels like it the car is going to swap ends. So only go above 120mph in a straight line.

Many (most?) cabrio roofs look like afterthoughts, and maybe they are. The cabrio-coach design at least looks more integrated (even if it does look like an old pram!). I think it's an ingenious piece of engineering, especially the way the glass is folded flat.


The place to watch for the dreaded green is in the joint between the bottom of the glass and the fabric - it's a bit of a dirt trap.


It's not actually canvas but it's a tough fabric;

Thanks for your valuable insights!
I’ve bought the Abarth 500C

Managed to get a decent amount off the price, probably because it’s winter and I am local (and keen)...

I’ll be parking (hiding) this behind the house while I sell our 500 Lounge. Kinda like a Christmas present that you buy yourself in November

-Alex

You'll need an early birthday present as well.
https://www.tmcmotorsport.com/product/4861

I put one on my Tursimo, (though I didn't spend this sort of silly money) what a difference it makes!
The noise isn't unbearable, but it snarls and growls like it was always meant too.

Piccolo Nero e Bella said:

The place to watch for the dreaded green is in the joint between the bottom of the glass and the fabric - it's a bit of a dirt trap.


It's not actually canvas but it's a tough fabric;

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Good advice for any fabric roof soft top I have to be carful in the same places on my golf cabriolet.

The roof on the 500c (I believe) is Mohair, so much better quality than canvas or vinyl.

Reading above it’s the car you’ve bought the same as the car you described with warning lights, lighting up the dash like a Christmas tree ?

AndyRKett said:

Reading above it’s the car you’ve bought the same as the car you described with warning lights, lighting up the dash like a Christmas tree ?

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Yep!
Apparently it’s “fixed” - was the brake light switch and an oxygen sensor. The latter was just the sensor heater open-circuit putting the engine management light on.

I guess if the ECU thought the brake pedal was pushed, it may have been cutting engine power at inopportune moments. This was probably causing confusion of the Selespeed, too.

We’ll see. I’m off shortly (on the bus) to collect the car.

-Alex

Goudrons said:

You'll need an early birthday present as well.
https://www.tmcmotorsport.com/product/4861

I put one on my Tursimo, (though I didn't spend this sort of silly money) what a difference it makes!
The noise isn't unbearable, but it snarls and growls like it was always meant too.

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LOL, I actually want the car to be nice and quiet
As it’s an EsseEsse, does it already have a special exhaust? Previous owner says it makes rumbles and pops...

-Alex

The standard silencer is ok, (looks like this https://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/17960587-fiat-500-abarth-silencer)
From within you can hear a faint rumble from it, stand behind and it sounds reasonably meaty when rev'd up..

If you're after quiet, the Monza might not be for you, it is a different beast altogether, under 4000 rpm it's meatier than stock, push it past 4000 and the exhaust pressure opens a valve so it bypasses the silencer (outer of the 4 pipes) and it gets quite raspy.

With the windows down it's quite a riot, but with them up you only really notice the rasp above 4000.

Windows down in a tunnel or under ground carpark, it's certainly gets you noticed, so if you're shy and retiring like me you can end up with rosy cheeks as everyone will stop and stare.

I noticed when I was hunting which model I wanted, the earlier cars and the series 4's with the IHI turbo felt and sounded a bit buzzy.
The series 4's with the Garret turbo sound and felt a bit more grunty without some of that buzzy feeling and sound.

There's someone near me with a Trofeo, 160hp with the IHI and Monza, it does sound different to my 165hp with Garret and Monza, sounds zoomier/airier and a little higher pitched.

Since fitting my Monza (which is actually an Abarth option), I notice the top end is more readily available, doesn't feel like it's as strangled when approaching the red line as it did before.

Some decat them and it makes them pop and bang more on the over run, if yours does it, it's worth checking if it's there still.
It might account for some of the warning lights I see it had in your earlier post (the down stream O2 sensor will complain without a cat if not fooled properly) and might be why the previous owner has told you it has a special exhaust.

I watched a vid on Youtube of an owner decatting and fitting a Bombardone exhaust (straight through, no silencer).
Jesus, it's loud. it's not for me, my neighbours would lynch me, I leave for work before 6am!

Standard < monza < akrapovich


The noise made by the akrapovich is unbelievable, how they have managed it is witchcraft.


The ihi has better grunt low down, comes on about 500rpm lower, the garrett is much more old school, lag, lag then gone.

alexGS said:

LOL, I actually want the car to be nice and quiet

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I'm with you on this one - I like my cars to be as quiet as possible.

Whilst in general I'd support anyone's right to modify their car as they choose, modifying an exhaust in such a way that the car makes more noise than it did when delivered from the factory is unnecessary, selfish, antisocial and in most jurisdictions, unlawful.

Well - after today’s first real drive (not in lashing rain), I can see why people would modify the exhaust - it’s maybe a little TOO quiet during mighty acceleration on the expressway

However I’m super-impressed with how quiet the engine is when idling, with no trace of vibration through the steering wheel - twice I had to check whether it was still running. It’s a nice surprise that there’s no Start-Stop system in a 2014 vehicle, unlike our Giulietta which is keen to finally stop the very second it’s needed.

I had the top open too as it was a gorgeously sunny winter’s day, but even then the exhaust never seemed loud or obtrusive, just like the ride never seemed uncomfortable and the Selespeed (sorry, ‘Competitizione Gearbox’) never seemed hesitant, even crawling in traffic. Even the stereo (Interscope) sounds good. The whole package just works so well.

Bearing in mind we can’t even DO 120mph anywhere, it’s more of a GT car than several Alfa Romeos I’ve owned... which is silly really as there’s only four cylinders and 160bhp, but it feels like more care has been taken with all aspects of how the car behaves. It’s not just about the power - the devil is in the details. And I’m delighted with them You can even fold those rear seats for more room in the old-Mini-style rear boot (who knew...)

I don’t remember being this impressed by a car in a long time. The day I drove a Ferrari 430 doesn’t even come close (massive quality disappointment), and the Maserati Granturismo S was also frustratingly coarse when I expected a smooth, refined experience. It’s surprising how ordinary cars can be so much better-quality than the special cars.

-Alex

jrkitching said:

I'm with you on this one - I like my cars to be as quiet as possible.

Whilst in general I'd support anyone's right to modify their car as they choose, modifying an exhaust in such a way that the car makes more noise than it did when delivered from the factory is unnecessary, selfish, antisocial and in most jurisdictions, unlawful.

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That's the beauty of the Monza and Akrapovic, they come from the factory with them, they aren't a modification, they are standard fit, the Monza is standard on the Comp and Trofeo, the Rivale comes with the Akrapovic.
On the rest of the line up they are a factory and/or dealer option.

I bought mine from a dealer and it came with the EU conformity docs in the box, so is totally legal and legit, and after I asked them, doesn't bother my insurance premium.

Same as the Interscope sound system, that's a factory option and I am certian it is louder that the stock system, though I've never seen any negative complaints about them.

Now tyres have dB ratings, should scorn be poured on those that fit the nosiest?

Since mines been on, no one has pulled or walked out in front of me yet, which is a bonus around London.

I had a new abarth 500 140bhp tintop in 2012, and i was also very suprised how refined it was , i found the exhaust to sound great on tickover and low/crawling speeds