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Twinair engine all the way ...forget the gear change indecator and change gear above 3000 revs and youll love it...
General twin air engine to get or not to get
- Thread starter fiatfan18
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General twin air engine to get or not to get
PaulMcgrath
Member
Bought a twin air turbo (TA85) for my daughter to drive occasionally (wife's car her named driver) - didn't realise there were 2 models of twin air and the insurance was prohibitively expensive.
Got a quote on a non turbo and bought a turbo - Doh!!!!! Service parts were massive, didn't idle smoothly, went like stink but couldn't use it because we had a black box fitted. The car was written off (not our fault) 4 months into ownership so we bought a 1.2 S. Insurance half the price and yes not the fastest thing in the world but if you keep it above 2000rpm its ok. The service parts are much cheaper and its easier to service.
My friend who is a mechanic says its the old 'fire' engine thus a non interference engine so if the belt snaps, shouldn't be detrimental to the valves etc.
With the above in mind, my recommendation would be the 1.2 especially as you wont have any driving history.
Hope this helps.
Got a quote on a non turbo and bought a turbo - Doh!!!!! Service parts were massive, didn't idle smoothly, went like stink but couldn't use it because we had a black box fitted. The car was written off (not our fault) 4 months into ownership so we bought a 1.2 S. Insurance half the price and yes not the fastest thing in the world but if you keep it above 2000rpm its ok. The service parts are much cheaper and its easier to service.
My friend who is a mechanic says its the old 'fire' engine thus a non interference engine so if the belt snaps, shouldn't be detrimental to the valves etc.
With the above in mind, my recommendation would be the 1.2 especially as you wont have any driving history.
Hope this helps.
IIRC the non-turbo version of the TA has never been sold in the UK.
Sadly not. The 1.2 FIRE became an interference engine with the introduction of VVT. The VVT engine has been used in the 500 since launch; no 500's have a non-interference engine. Cambelt failure is not often reported, but it will cause serious engine damage if it happens, so replacement of the belt and water pump at the recommended intervals is advised.
The non-interference form of the engine was used in the 1.2 Panda until the introduction of the Euro5 engine in mid-2010; 1.2 Pandas made after that date also have interference engines.
Mine also; for a new driver, insuring an 85TA will cost you significantly more, and a 105TA even more still.
Last edited:
PaulMcgrath
Member
Good to know on the belt issue 'cos guess who would be the first one to report a belt failure ?? ME
Thanks for the heads up
Thanks for the heads up
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We had our 1.2 remapped and it no longer does this.
PaulMcgrath
Member
I was looking at the Celtic Tuning chip, can you say who's chip you went with??
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First car's are always difficult, you've no real idea on what's what or even what you actually need.
I would hesitate buying new. Though the experience to start with will be great, you are wide open a lot of hassle that can cost you dear.
Claim for the smallest bump will see you paying the price for years to come via insurance premiums and you'll not want to leave a new one with a battle scar here and there.
You'll almost certainly have a big excess on a new driver policy, so in the event of a total loss, you would lose a massive chunk of the cars value.
You don't want a banger either.
A cars life to a manufacturer these days is around 7 years, after this it all starts to cost to keep it in good fettle, particularly now cars are more electronic and computerised.
So you want something cheapish but still current, with a low insurance group, with some form of warranty and perhaps help to start you off.
Plan on running it as cheaply as you can for 3 or 4 years and try not to worry about the odd self inflicted knock or bump.
So I suggest you start looking at cars coming off 3 or 4 year PCP deals at the main dealers as they'll be a good 4 or 5 years in them in the eyes of the dealer/manufacturer and most will only just be broken in with minimum miles on them.
They'll all be serviced on the dot and most niggles will have been sorted under the original warranty.
Look at base spec/engined cars and try and sniff out ones that may have had the odd option fitted, though it's not a deal breaker as things like aftermarket hands free systems can be added quite cheaply these days.
Go over it with a fine comb, anything like a rusty exhaust, worn tyre etc, get them to replace them and ask them to throw in a spacesaver spare too, push them so you're sure as can be there's a good few years in it without unnecessary spending, though don't get rude, the salesperson will hopefully be your first point of call for help and advise about the car, so you need them on your side.
Which car?
I wouldn't worry too much about it yet, worry later when your wallet and heart agree, but perhaps this very forum might be a factor in choosing a manufacturer.
There's no end of help for owners on here, most of us have been there and done it and know our way around various models.
Which leaves you perhaps a choice of:
500 Pop with a 1.2 engine
or
A Panda Pop with the same engine.
The 500 is a bit pricier, it's designed to be "designer", though underneath it's fairly solid and the running gear well proven.
The Panda's a bit more utilitarian, but has the same mechanicals.
It's a bit cheaper and a bit more sensible and practical, which helps with insurance.
We bought our lad a Panda Pop when he started out, now me, the mrs and him fight for it!
We bought it as above, straight off a PCP with 5,000 miles on the clock and it's cost us nothing except a service once a year.
It runs like a dream and we're not to bothered about the odd nic and dent, though we know as soon as his insurance drops, he'll see himself in a new Mini Cooper (and almost certainly a big write off!)
I would hesitate buying new. Though the experience to start with will be great, you are wide open a lot of hassle that can cost you dear.
Claim for the smallest bump will see you paying the price for years to come via insurance premiums and you'll not want to leave a new one with a battle scar here and there.
You'll almost certainly have a big excess on a new driver policy, so in the event of a total loss, you would lose a massive chunk of the cars value.
You don't want a banger either.
A cars life to a manufacturer these days is around 7 years, after this it all starts to cost to keep it in good fettle, particularly now cars are more electronic and computerised.
So you want something cheapish but still current, with a low insurance group, with some form of warranty and perhaps help to start you off.
Plan on running it as cheaply as you can for 3 or 4 years and try not to worry about the odd self inflicted knock or bump.
So I suggest you start looking at cars coming off 3 or 4 year PCP deals at the main dealers as they'll be a good 4 or 5 years in them in the eyes of the dealer/manufacturer and most will only just be broken in with minimum miles on them.
They'll all be serviced on the dot and most niggles will have been sorted under the original warranty.
Look at base spec/engined cars and try and sniff out ones that may have had the odd option fitted, though it's not a deal breaker as things like aftermarket hands free systems can be added quite cheaply these days.
Go over it with a fine comb, anything like a rusty exhaust, worn tyre etc, get them to replace them and ask them to throw in a spacesaver spare too, push them so you're sure as can be there's a good few years in it without unnecessary spending, though don't get rude, the salesperson will hopefully be your first point of call for help and advise about the car, so you need them on your side.
Which car?
I wouldn't worry too much about it yet, worry later when your wallet and heart agree, but perhaps this very forum might be a factor in choosing a manufacturer.
There's no end of help for owners on here, most of us have been there and done it and know our way around various models.
Which leaves you perhaps a choice of:
500 Pop with a 1.2 engine
or
A Panda Pop with the same engine.
The 500 is a bit pricier, it's designed to be "designer", though underneath it's fairly solid and the running gear well proven.
The Panda's a bit more utilitarian, but has the same mechanicals.
It's a bit cheaper and a bit more sensible and practical, which helps with insurance.
We bought our lad a Panda Pop when he started out, now me, the mrs and him fight for it!
We bought it as above, straight off a PCP with 5,000 miles on the clock and it's cost us nothing except a service once a year.
It runs like a dream and we're not to bothered about the odd nic and dent, though we know as soon as his insurance drops, he'll see himself in a new Mini Cooper (and almost certainly a big write off!)
Last edited:
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On the subject of insurance, it might pay to add an experienced driver to your policy as a named driver.
Someone like your mum or aunt might get a nice slice of you premium.
Someone like your mum or aunt might get a nice slice of you premium.
We had the 85 TA from 2011, pxed this year for the abarth.
I think the 85hp engine is a phenomenal design, in eco mode it behaves as a diesel at tickover and in normal mode its throaty and responsive. We took it over Stelvios pass and mont blanc couple of times.
Failures;
expansion tank just before 3 years at MOT - foc
windscreen nozzles - replaced with new design foc
back hatch loom - failed in year 4, sourced from germany + £100 labour cost
water pump in year 5, sourced from eurocarparts by indi
I replaced the wipers to bosch, bought some winter tyres with ZERO Road tax what more do you want Not sure why I sold it for the Abarth !!
for older people, its probably better to buy an Abarth than a 500 if the road tax is going to be £140 anyway !!
I think the 85hp engine is a phenomenal design, in eco mode it behaves as a diesel at tickover and in normal mode its throaty and responsive. We took it over Stelvios pass and mont blanc couple of times.
Failures;
expansion tank just before 3 years at MOT - foc
windscreen nozzles - replaced with new design foc
back hatch loom - failed in year 4, sourced from germany + £100 labour cost
water pump in year 5, sourced from eurocarparts by indi
I replaced the wipers to bosch, bought some winter tyres with ZERO Road tax what more do you want
Not sure why I sold it for the Abarth !! for older people, its probably better to buy an Abarth than a 500 if the road tax is going to be £140 anyway !!
