re: Mileage results & random EV musings

When I used to do my 25 mile commute to work in my TA 85, I got around 50mpg. Trying really hard, the best I ever got was 57. Lots of shorter journeys returned low to mid 40s. I sometimes car shared with a friend who travelled from 70 miles away, and he could regularly get over 60mpg in his TA, but he did have the patience to cruise ar 50-60 mph on the motorway. All above figures from the trip computer, which I found to be about 2% optimistic.
As an aside, the 500X 1.4 Multiair I've got now returns 30-40mpg, depending on use. That's calculated, the trip is 10% optimistic! I don't mind as I'm now retired and only cover about 5000 miles per year. Much easier to get seats for the grandchildren in the back, and the 140bhp is nice!

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

TrevC said:

I don't mind as I'm now retired and only cover about 5000 miles per year. Much easier to get seats for the grandchildren in the back, and the 140bhp is nice!

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Exactly.

For most folks buying on a pcp and trading in after 3-4 years, fuel will only be a small percentage of the total cost of ownership, so saving 10% on fuel may only reduce the total outlay by 2% or so.

There's a lot to be said for buying what you want, and driving it how you want, providing of course that you can afford it. If you're doing 5000 miles a year in a newish car, your biggest cost by a long way will be depreciation.

That said, if you really squeeze the lemon until the pips squeak, you can run a car for a lot less and if you're doing a higher mileage and keeping your car a long time, then fuel may become a substantially greater proportion of the final bill.

I reckon a lot of folks could save 15-20% of what they spend on fuel just by making a few changes to their driving style, without materially affecting journey times. There's potentially another 15-20% beyond that, but it gets progressively harder and by then it's definitely going to take you longer to get where you're going. After that, you're entering hypermiling territory, and that's a whole new ballpark.

Seven years of threads like this suggests most normal 500 drivers will be seeing an mpg figure in the lower half of the 40's, whatever their engine choice. It's capable of a lot better, but so are almost all cars (relatively speaking).

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

Our 59 1.2 has crept up to 47.7 good for us?

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

Wise words JRK. And even though the fuel cost isn't a massive factor for me, sometimes I get a lot of satisfaction from resetting the trip, setting off and trying to get the mpg as high as I can.

As you say, depreciation is the biggest factor - the 500 averaged just under a £1500 per year loss over 6 years, buying new and px-ing at a main dealer.

The 500X was 17 months old when I bought it for about £9k less than full list for a new one, but I doubt it will perform as well.

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

The Economy is very tyre dependent. Best consumption I had was on 15 inch eco contact summer tyres. Same size and all season tyres, lost 12%. 16 inch sports tyres, lost a further 13%.

D

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

Blimey,
Those figures are about what I get from my 150 HP, 1.5 ton, 5 door Croma Comfort Wagon! Remarkably close for driving conditions and styles apart from the fact I need to be slipstreaming lorries to get up to 60MPG average on a motorway. Oddly the motorway sweet-spot in 6th is a little over 70MPH. It was also pretty much fully depreciated when I bought it, don't think I'll be taking out a PCP on a new 500 twin air anytime soon.


Robert G8RPI.

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

g8rpi said:

Blimey,
Those figures are about what I get from my 150 HP, 1.5 ton, 5 door Croma Comfort Wagon!

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My 150bhp 1600kg golf also gets much better figures than those above. Even if I'm getting an 80mph move on across Europe, I get better economy figures than these supposedly economical little city cars.

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

g8rpi said:

...don't think I'll be taking out a PCP on a new 500 twin air anytime soon.

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I don't blame you.

The deal below was just pulled at random off the web. It's a 4yr Fiat pcp on a TA85 Lounge with a 6000 mile pa limit. £1k upfront, then £209/month.

It works out at a shade over 45p/mile, and that's before servicing, insurance, fuel, road tax and any out of warranty repairs in year 4 .

Move up to a TA105, and you're looking at a staggering 53.9p/mile from the same dealer .

It might put a smile on your face when you drive it, but it'd put a very different expression on mine every time I watched the DD payment flying out of my bank account each month.

I bought the Panda new for cash seven years ago. Even if I gave it away to a charity shop tomorrow, it's only depreciated 8.5p/mile on the same basis.

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

The Croma is currently on 10.8p per mile depreciation after 3 years assuming zero residual value. All servicing has been DIY.

Robert G8RPI

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

jrkitching said:

I bought the Panda new for cash seven years ago. Even if I gave it away to a charity shop tomorrow, it's only cost me 8.5p/mile on the same basis.

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I keep records, and we bought our Clio for cash in April 2001.
Trouble is, I haven't kept records on fuel consumed.

It's done 98,100miles.
Spent so far, including MOTs, servicing, tyres, and all parts and labour ............. guess how much?





£6,146 + £11,800 cash brand new = £17,946
That's 18.3p per mile not counting petrol.

Regards,
Mick.

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

Mick F said:

That's 18.3p per mile not counting petrol.
.

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My best guess from what you've posted previously is you'd be somewhere in the range of 13p-14p/mile for petrol, so if you've included insurance in your previous total, perhaps 32p/mile all in .

Well under current RAC figures .

Fuelly shows the Panda at 10.2p/mile for fuel, 55.7 mpg averaged over 78000 miles in 7yrs. It's still worth something, so if we say 7p/mile for depreciation and 3p for insurance, tax (£30pa) and DIY servicing (it's needed no repairs as such), then I'm looking at around 20p/mile all in; that's probably about as cheap as it gets.

The 500, which cost more and has done nothing like the mileage, won't even get close to these figures.

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

I heard on the news the other day, that the cost of car insurance has gone up 11% (?) and that the average cost of car insurance is £450.

I was shocked by this figure. I've never ever paid any more than £200, and at the moment my insurance is £154 for the 500TA.

If we consider the true cost of motoring, we have to take figures such as I've posted about our Clio ....................... plus insurance, plus VED, and plus fuel used.

Depreciation is a red herring IMHO.
If you buy something, you keep it and shouldn't expect it to be worth anything at all when you've finished with it.
If or when you sell it, any money received is a bonus ............ not a guaranteed expectation because market forces are a mercurial thing.

Mick.

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

Mick F said:

Depreciation is a red herring IMHO.

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For most folks, it's far and away the greatest element of cost in running a car. Just look at the numbers in that pcp illustration I posted earlier.

Mick F said:

If you buy something...

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Not many people buy new cars outright these days. Over 85% are leased, bought on a pcp or otherwise financed. Most of these are traded in before they're paid for, and are never actually owned by the first recorded keeper.

Most deals written today will be well under water for most of the agreement term. There is still a lot of irresponsible financing out there; car finance defaults could easily trigger the next banking crisis.

Mick F said:

I heard on the news the other day, that the cost of car insurance has gone up 11% (?) and that the average cost of car insurance is £450.

I was shocked by this figure. I've never ever paid any more than £200, and at the moment my insurance is £154 for the 500TA.

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Just been quoted a shade under £145 to renew the Panda. Living in a big city would likely at least double that.

If you were a 17yr old with no driving history, it might be cheaper to charter a helicopter... . I've heard it said that young folks today are deferring learning to drive, partly because of this, partly because the cost of actually passing a test is another frightening number, and partly because alternative service models like uber mean taxis are getting cheaper.

Those in the know are predicting a significant correction in used vehicle values. Many current pcp deals won't have any equity at balloon payment time and the finance houses are going to take a hit on the returned vehicles.

People who buy new for cash and keep the car for most of its economic life are likely only paying about half of what it's costing folks who flit between low deposit pcp deals every couple of years.

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

Yes, the PCP deals are turning out to be bad deals. Secondhand prices are dropping I understand.

One of my hobby horses is Renault electric cars - Zoe. They want you to pay monthly a rental for the battery. This figure is more than what you would pay monthly for petrol for the same mileage. Then you have to buy the electricity at about £3 per 100miles on top of that.

Why do people buy them?

Believe me, I've looked into it and calculated the costs and even been in contact with Renault, and they reluctantly agreed with me. All they could say that the VED was zero, and it was helping the planet. What I want is for them to help me with my wallet.

Same as a PCP. You pay through the nose to own a new car.

TTFN,
Mick.

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

Mick F said:

<SNIP>
Renault electric cars - Zoe.
<SNIP>

Why do people buy them?

Believe me, I've looked into it and calculated the costs and even been in contact with Renault, and they reluctantly agreed with me. All they could say that the VED was zero, and it was helping the planet. What I want is for them to help me with my wallet.
<SNIP>

Mick.

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Not sure about helping the planet. The electricity may have come from coal, gas more likely but still CO2 generator. Then there are all the chemicals used to make the batteries, motors and power semiconductors. I also looked at a different all electric car and even with a significant discount on normal price for 3 years and charging for free at work (interesting tax questions on that, employer has to charge tax or apply for an exemption), it was still a lot cheaper to keep puttng diesel in the Croma and scrap it after three years than pay the rental on the electric. Additionally I'd still need access to a conventional car for the odd long distance run.

Robert G8RPI.

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

I think you can pay a few grand extra for a Zoe and own the battery. I agree that leasing it makes no economic sense, especially as EV batteries are proving much more durable than anyone expected. Technology is moving fast with these things, and renewables are providing more and more of our electricity each year. It's a really interesting area when you start looking into it. I wouldn't like to predict exactly when, but I think EVs will be a bit like flat TVs - for a long time they were an expensive, niche product, then suddenly CRT TVs disappeared very quickly. A much more complex situation of course, but I think it will happen with internal combustion power for vehicles.

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

Our TA 105 does a lot of short runs but averages mid 30's. On our last holiday with a nice long steady drive, it got to 54 mpg with sport mode on. Funnily enough, this is exactly the figure I used to get from out 4 cyl 1.6 litre Swift Sport.
I think my problem is I just can't resist giving it a quick blast just for a laugh, this little car really does make me grin!

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

So, I filled my tank yesterday. Usually every square (petrol indicator) gets me to ride 60Km.

I'm struggling to reach that now. I'm driving on traffic in the morning and my milage is 8.3l/100km or 34mpg (imperial).

I'm driving with real time stats to see how I'm driving. Is it normal when driving in first, second gear for the milage to jump to 13-18l/100km? Even when stepping on the gas just a little?

Cheers

re: Mileage results & random EV musings

I'd guess so, as in the lower gears the engine is spinning quickly but the car isn't going far. The weather also has an effect. In cold weather the car will use more petrol than in warm weather.

diogosgrecco said:

I'm struggling to reach that now. I'm driving on traffic in the morning and my milage is 8.3l/100km or 34mpg (imperial).

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You think that's bad, my Mazda is always on 14.7L/ 100 MILES or about 30 mpg