So completely out of the blue my car has just done the strangest of things. He started no problem this morning and I drove the 20 miles to the town where im working. I called into a shop for breakfast but when I tried to restart nothing happened. Everything lit up as it should, but when I turned the key the final time to start the car I hot nothing. No crank, no noise, no error messages. Nothing.

I looked in the engine bay to see if there was anything a miss. All seemed normal. After about a dozen tries and 10 mins later he started.

Anyone have any ideas? Aliens?

08 1.3 mjet, 70k miles

Tom

Non, but I have noticed our(petrol) car can get confused whilst turning the key, between run and start, all the lights will be on but no cranking, I have to turn off totally, turn to run(carefully pausing) then crank over, or a swift turn to crank from off, thought this gives little time for the fuel pump to prime.

This may sound crazy but I have attended non starting 500's like this, checked to find it should start but won't. Problem battery, fit top spec Varta battery only this cures the problem.

cotswoldtony said:

This may sound crazy but I have attended non starting 500's like this, checked to find it should start but won't. Problem battery, fit top spec Varta battery only this cures the problem.

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stop/start equipped..??

Kekybobo said:

So completely out of the blue my car has just done the strangest of things. He started no problem this morning and I drove the 20 miles to the town where im working. I called into a shop for breakfast but when I tried to restart nothing happened. Everything lit up as it should, but when I turned the key the final time to start the car I hot nothing. No crank, no noise, no error messages. Nothing.

I looked in the engine bay to see if there was anything a miss. All seemed normal. After about a dozen tries and 10 mins later he started.

Anyone have any ideas? Aliens?

08 1.3 mjet, 70k miles

Tom

Click to expand...

Hi Tom,
could well be the main earth cable , from battery to engine / g-box is failing internally,
becoming a common issue - age..,
Charlie

Having a similar issue with my 04 Punto 1.2 16v. If i leave it for a two days without starting it then come back to it the start up is very odd and stuttery, the clock also resets itself but after a funny start the car ticks over and drives normally. Went for a 6 mile drive into town and then back again, parked up and decided to switch the engine off and back on again. All normal.

It isn't a massive issue but i am worried it may become one. Car has done 63k miles.

Veraborn64 said:

Having a similar issue with my 04 Punto 1.2 16v. If i leave it for a two days without starting it then come back to it the start up is very odd and stuttery, the clock also resets itself but after a funny start the car ticks over and drives normally. Went for a 6 mile drive into town and then back again, parked up and decided to switch the engine off and back on again. All normal.

It isn't a massive issue but i am worried it may become one. Car has done 63k miles.

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Hi - that's typical of a low battery,

for some reason the Gauges in a Mk2 seem to "chatter",

the clock ZEROing is also an indication that with so much of the batterys power attempting to spin the starter and engine, it can drop so low, the clock will lose it's power and just reset.

Charlie

If the earth lead from n,s,f chassis to gearbox hasn't been replaced like varesecrazy mentioned then start by replacing that. Common issue after 6 years old. Have your battery tested, batteries generallly don't last longer than 4/5 years so if it's older than that there is a good chance it won't be in good health, don't waste your money on a cheap battery if you do replace it, buy one with a 4/5 year warranty.
If it still won't crank over then you need to check the exciter wire to the starter motor solenoid, not easy on the diesel 500 but if you have ramps then you can get to it up the back of the engine. The exciter wire (the small wire) should be live when cranking. Make sure it's in neutral with wheels choked.!!

08 Fiat will not be fitted with start/stop components, the problem is common especially with vehicles fitted with exide batteries. Only Varta seem to be a completely reliable battery.

Thanks for the info.

As cotswoldtony mentions it's non start/stop being an 08 model.

It never did it before and hasn't done it since. At the time I thought it could have been the battery but as I'd just driven 20miles and all other electrics were OK I ruled it out. I turned everything off and tried to start the car but had the same problem. If memory serves when it did start I had the radio back on again.

I had let the car roll forward a little (I remember my dad doing something similar years ago, although at the time his car was cranking but not starting. It was something to do with an immobiliser). It didn't crank.

As I said above it just seemed to crank and start just as randomly as when the problem arose.

I'll give it a good look over at the weekend and will report back with any findings. If it happens again I'll replace the battery. I've owned the car for just over a year now. Its quite possible it's still the original.

Tom

varesecrazy said:

stop/start equipped..??

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cotswoldtony

ok - good to know this only happens to pre-S/S 500's.

Hello all, so it happened again yesterday and the only way to get it started was a bump start from a kindly neighbour with his tow rope. So my plan now is to investigate the two earth straps over the weekend. Im led to believe there's one from the battery to the chassis, and another from the engine block to the chassis, both hidden around the battery compartment area. Does anyone know the lengths of cable needed so I can get them ordered to speed up the swap? There's loads on eBay but don't want to buy the wrong length. Hopefully that solves it otherwise a new starter motor may be required.

Kekybobo said:

Hello all, so it happened again yesterday and the only way to get it started was a bump start from a kindly neighbour with his tow rope. So my plan now is to investigate the two earth straps over the weekend. Im led to believe there's one from the battery to the chassis, and another from the engine block to the chassis, both hidden around the battery compartment area. Does anyone know the lengths of cable needed so I can get them ordered to speed up the swap? There's loads on eBay but don't want to buy the wrong length. Hopefully that solves it otherwise a new starter motor may be required.

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There's two listed on shop4parts for the diesel 250mm and 400mm long if that's any help.
I once had a "dead sector" on a starter one minute it was fine next nothing took some time to work it out on the bench it would work fine after many in outs and back to dealer he tried testing it and worked fine 10 times in a row until it stopped at just the right point, turn it slightly and fine again for many cycles just had to stop at the exact failure spot,
Don't assume your starter is faulty though careful checking required.

John202020 said:

There's two listed on shop4parts for the diesel 250mm and 400mm long if that's any help.
I once had a "dead sector" on a starter one minute it was fine next nothing took some time to work it out on the bench it would work fine after many in outs and back to dealer he tried testing it and worked fine 10 times in a row until it stopped at just the right point, turn it slightly and fine again for many cycles just had to stop at the exact failure spot,
Don't assume your starter is faulty though careful checking required.

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I've bought these ones. More or less the same length.

The dead spot on the starter is what my gut is telling me. Any way of moving it past without removing it from the car? I've tried the old put it into a high gear and rock the car trick but it didn't work.

If it has a dead spot/sector its a new/recon starter, the starter with a dead spot was a recon unit that failed at 8 months old.
On a clock face the dead area may say be 12:01 and 12:31 at (12:00 and 12:30 or 12:02 and 12:32) there will be no problems its if it happens to stop just at that very spot it will not work at all, its the luck of the draw if it stops at the critical spot, the only way of moving it on is to manually turn the starter which you cannot do without removing it, it made no clicking noise or anything.

Remember the starter is NOT engaged normally only when the start solenoid throws the gear out to contact the flywheel, rocking the car in gear will not move the starter shaft.

New Bosch starter £112 after discount AND after deposit returned

http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l...1c277b54e55ba459a8330b59b80a26f9679c5&000308#

A simple test you can do next time it fails to start is to connect a black jumper cable to the battery negative, and the other end to the engine hoist ring on the top of the engine to create a new engine earth, then try starting it again.

I was plagued with this problem for ages on my 1.3 punto Diesel. In the end I modified the engine earth cable to bring it up higher and away from and the road dirt and grime and then fitted a second engine earth on the top of the engine to where the coolant bottle connects to the body of he car.

The earth from the battery usually goes down and bolts to the body just under the battery then carries on down to bolt to the front of the engine, it's one cable with 3 bolt rings to bolt it in place, I will try and find the link to when I did it on my punto

AndyRKett said:

A simple test you can do next time it fails to start is to connect a black jumper cable to the battery negative, and the other end to the engine hoist ring on the top of the engine to create a new engine earth, then try starting it again.

I was plagued with this problem for ages on my 1.3 punto Diesel. In the end I modified the engine earth cable to bring it up higher and away from and the road dirt and grime and then fitted a second engine earth on the top of the engine to where the coolant bottle connects to the body of he car.

The earth from the battery usually goes down and bolts to the body just under the battery then carries on down to bolt to the front of the engine, it's one cable with 3 bolt rings to bolt it in place, I will try and find the link to when I did it on my punto

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A "jump lead" can be used to test

Thanks for the feedback. Initially the kindly neighbour went and got jump leads, his car and a big battery charger. He thought it was the battery but I wasn't convinced. When the jump leads were out I tried creating a new negitive connection from the battery to the engine block. I used a lifting hook. Made no difference. That's why my gut is telling me it's an issue with the starter motor. I'm gonna change the earth straps to completely rule it out.

Tom

Well I think it's definitely the starter motor. Got home from work this evening and tried the car again. Nothing. Jacked it up and climbed under and hit the starter a few slaps with the wheel brace. Tried the car and it started! A few offs and on again and it stopped working again. Another wallop and it started.

Safe to say I'll be ordering a new starter (or maybe a refurbished one funds depending)

How many miles has the car done?

I'm thinking it may just be a sticking brush, in which case removing the starter, dismantling and cleaning may be all that is needed; that will cost you nothing but your time. It could also be a sticking solenoid (they're integral with the motor on most cars these days); the same comment applies.

Starters and alternators can often be made good as new just by cleaning and replacing the brushes for a fraction of the cost of a service exchange unit.