Technical Clutch pedal and switch

[Frowsen]

Hello, I'm very new to this forum so apologise if this question has already been asked. I have searched the forum but couldn't find the answer.

I have a 2011 fiat 500 twinair with 36k miles on the clock. The stop/start is no longer working so I thought I'll have a look around the clutch pedal. I can see that there is some sort of sensor switch which is attached by the side of the clutch pedal. There appears to be another mechanism connected to the switch and I think this should be connected to the clutch pedal. However this mechanism is loose and is not fixed to the clutch pedal at all. It moves around freely and does not operate the switch when the pedal is pressed or released.

My questions are, is this the reason the start/stop is not working? How can I fix this? And does anyone have any schematic diagrams of the clutch pedal assembly so I can see how it all fits together.

Thank you for reading my post and for any help you may be able to give.

 

[coolbumble]

Hello, I'm very new to this forum so apologise if this question has already been asked. I have searched the forum but couldn't find the answer.

I have a 2011 fiat 500 twinair with 36k miles on the clock. The stop/start is no longer working so I thought I'll have a look around the clutch pedal. I can see that there is some sort of sensor switch which is attached by the side of the clutch pedal. There appears to be another mechanism connected to the switch and I think this should be connected to the clutch pedal. However this mechanism is loose and is not fixed to the clutch pedal at all. It moves around freely and does not operate the switch when the pedal is pressed or released.

My questions are, is this the reason the start/stop is not working? How can I fix this? And does anyone have any schematic diagrams of the clutch pedal assembly so I can see how it all fits together.

Thank you for reading my post and for any help you may be able to give.

Before delving into that Id check the battery is ok That's what I found was wrong when my start stop stopped working , Regards Ian

 

[John202020]

Battery is not cheap;
http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/F...85c662a3c586cff662a95b3e1c5ec77babb8fb&000020

Use code "SAVEME" to save 31% expires midnight tonight makes it a reasonable £86 you can click and collect and pick up Sat but pay online

 

[Frowsen]

Thanks for the advice but the battery is new, only two months old. I've had it checked and report comes back as 100%.

There is definitely a problem by the clutch pedal. I can see that there is something loose which should be connected to the clutch pedal and to the switch. This part has come away from the pedal and I don't know how it should go back on. It is possible that the part has broken away from the clutch pedal.

 

[Super Uwe]

Hello, I'm very new to this forum so apologise if this question has already been asked. I have searched the forum but couldn't find the answer.

I have a 2011 fiat 500 twinair with 36k miles on the clock. The stop/start is no longer working so I thought I'll have a look around the clutch pedal. I can see that there is some sort of sensor switch which is attached by the side of the clutch pedal. There appears to be another mechanism connected to the switch and I think this should be connected to the clutch pedal. However this mechanism is loose and is not fixed to the clutch pedal at all. It moves around freely and does not operate the switch when the pedal is pressed or released.

My questions are, is this the reason the start/stop is not working? How can I fix this? And does anyone have any schematic diagrams of the clutch pedal assembly so I can see how it all fits together.

Thank you for reading my post and for any help you may be able to give.

Hello Frowsen,

It's quite possible that if your clutch switch is faulty/broken, it may well be the cause of the S/S problems.

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/309721-faulty-clutch-switch.html

The thread above is for our old 12 plate 1.2 Panda (so the same car more or less), basically part of the switch broke off and was repaired under warranty. Whilst it was waiting to be repaired, it did knock out the gearshift indicators and affected the way the engine behaved, so I can imagine the S/S system could also be affected if the circuit is broken.

Unfortunately the 1.2 in the current Panda doesn't have S/S, otherwise I would probably have had first hand experience of whether it caused S/S to stop working or not

Is the component you're looking at a pink/purple shade? If so then it is the same bit that broke off of our Panda.

As for a diagram, I remember looking on the SG Petch website (they are a Fiat dealer). Does this look familiar to you?

http://www.sgpetchparts.co.uk/fiat/...l-0.9-Twinair-85-bhp/Clutch-Switch-13479.html

Hopefully this is of some assistance

 

[Frowsen]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. The actual switch is intact and attached to the pedal mechanism. It does have a purple coloured part and looks like the item on the sg petch web site. There is another part which fits into the purple bit of the switch and which appears to also connect to the pedal in some way. It's is this part that seems to be broken or worked loose from the pedal. I need to know if it is actually broken or has come loose so I can either replace it or position it back in. This part is just wobbling about and is not operating the switch when the clutch pedal is pressed. I have positioned it out of the way at the moment so it doesn't get in the way when I press the pedal. I can also say that the gear change indicator is also now not working and I believe it is all linked.

Does anyone know where I might be able to download and view any schematic diagrams of the clutch pedal assembly. From this I should be able work out how it all fits together. Or can someone post a picture of their clutch pedal assembly? I will post a picture of my pedal and the suspected broken part tomorrow.

Thanks again for reading my post and for any help you can give me.

Regards,
Babs.

 

[Mick F]

The stop/start is no longer working ...........

Can I ask a very basic question?
What - specifically - isn't working?

Is the engine stopping for the full three minutes?
If so, the battery is fine.
If not, the battery is rubbish.

Is the engine stopping for the full three minutes, and then not re-starting when you depress the clutch?
If so, you have a clutch switch problem.

Need to know these, before we go any further.

Regards,
Mick.

 

[Super Uwe]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. The actual switch is intact and attached to the pedal mechanism. It does have a purple coloured part and looks like the item on the sg petch web site. There is another part which fits into the purple bit of the switch and which appears to also connect to the pedal in some way. It's is this part that seems to be broken or worked loose from the pedal. I need to know if it is actually broken or has come loose so I can either replace it or position it back in. This part is just wobbling about and is not operating the switch when the clutch pedal is pressed. I have positioned it out of the way at the moment so it doesn't get in the way when I press the pedal. I can also say that the gear change indicator is also now not working and I believe it is all linked.

Does anyone know where I might be able to download and view any schematic diagrams of the clutch pedal assembly. From this I should be able work out how it all fits together. Or can someone post a picture of their clutch pedal assembly? I will post a picture of my pedal and the suspected broken part tomorrow.

Thanks again for reading my post and for any help you can give me.

Regards,
Babs.

Thanks for the extra info. Unfortunately I won't have access to our 500 so can't take a picture. Hopefully someone else will be able to assist.

The fact you say that the shift indicators aren't working would suggest that the clutch switch is the cause to me (and quite probably why S/S isn't working). But as you say, you need to know if it is properly broken or just needs putting back in.

If you can upload pictures that will be very useful I'm sure.

 

[Frowsen]

Hi Mick,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. The stop start isn't working at all, i.e when the car stops and I put the gear into neutral and lift the clutch, the engine doesn't stop running. I have not pressed the button to disable the stop start.

Occasionally when I'm driving, the stop start disabled light and the orange triangle light with the ! light both turn on. A message saying start stop unavailable also appears. When I turn the engine off and back on both lights disappear.

From looking at the pedal assembly there appears to some mechanism attached to the clutch pedal which should in turn operate the clutch switch when the clutch is pressed and depressed. It is this mechanism that is loose and so is not operating the switch.

Hope this makes sense. I tried to take pictures but they are too dark. I will take more pictures with some better lighting.

Thanks again for your advice.

Regards,
Babs.

 

[Mick F]

Hi Babs,
The S/S should work even if you DON"T depress the clutch.

Try rolling along and taking the car out of gear without touching the clutch, then brake and stop. Normally, the S/S will stop the engine. It has nothing to do with the clutch for the Stop Phase.

The clutch switch re-starts the car when you depress it.
Another method of restarting, is moving forwards when in neutral. i.e. no clutch operation.

If your car won't stop and restart without the clutch, it cannot be the clutch switch.

Hope that helps,
Mick.

 

[g8rpi]

Hi Babs,
The S/S should work even if you DON"T depress the clutch.

Try rolling along and taking the car out of gear without touching the clutch, then brake and stop. Normally, the S/S will stop the engine. It has nothing to do with the clutch for the Stop Phase.

The clutch switch re-starts the car when you depress it.
Another method of restarting, is moving forwards when in neutral. i.e. no clutch operation.

If your car won't stop and restart without the clutch, it cannot be the clutch switch.

Hope that helps,
Mick.

Lets get back to basics, If there is something broken or loose on the pedal / switch assembly that needs to be sorted first.


Robert G8RPI.

 

[Super Uwe]

Lets get back to basics, If there is something broken or loose on the pedal / switch assembly that needs to be sorted first.


Robert G8RPI.

I quite agree with you.

There is something wrong with the clutch switch and that needs fixing first. Whether or not it is the actual cause of the S/S problems remains to be seen (I couldn't say either way for certain), but it will almost certainly be the cause of the shift indicators not working as that is precisely what happened to our old Panda.
Frowsen - aside from the clutch switch, you say about the S/S warning light coming on every now and then when you are driving (and going out when you restart). It may be worth your while getting a code reader and plugging in to see if there are any faults stored, or taking it to a garage you trust who can do it for you.

 

[Mick F]

Lets get back to basics, If there is something broken or loose on the pedal / switch assembly that needs to be sorted first.

Yes.
I quite agree with you.
I'll wind my neck in. :worship:

Just thinking though ..............................

I wonder if the clutch switch is a "break" switch when you depress the clutch instead of a "make" switch.

When you depress the clutch, the switch breaks ie goes open circuit.
Therefore, if the switch is physically broken, the S/S system could consider the clutch depressed, and therefore the engine won't stop.

Also, if it's broken, it could be why the S/S warning comes on from time to time. ie the switch is intermittent.

Thanks for letting me ramble.
Mick.

 

[g8rpi]

Yes.
I quite agree with you.
I'll wind my neck in. :worship:

Just thinking though ..............................

I wonder if the clutch switch is a "break" switch when you depress the clutch instead of a "make" switch.

When you depress the clutch, the switch breaks ie goes open circuit.
Therefore, if the switch is physically broken, the S/S system could consider the clutch depressed, and therefore the engine won't stop.

Also, if it's broken, it could be why the S/S warning comes on from time to time. ie the switch is intermittent.

Thanks for letting me ramble.
Mick.

I agree on the switch position issue, broken it may say clutch down/out, but don't know enough about the system to be sure.


Robert G8RPI.

 

[Frowsen]

Hi again,

Thanks to everyone for reading my posts and replying. There is definitely something that is broken by the clutch pedal. The broken part is what operates the switch when the pedal is pressed. I took the car to a fiat specialist today and he managed to get the broken part out. It would appear that this part should be attached to some sort of shaft by the clutch pedal. It is connect by a weld that has failed. The mechanic said he will need to check with fiat and see what is needed to fix it. I'm hoping I'm not going to need an entire new clutch pedal assembly. He said the the switch itself is ok. I will let you all know how it goes when I hear back from the mechanic.

Regards,
Babs.

 

[Frowsen]

Ok, so today I got my fiat 500 back from the garage and my wallet is £320 pound lighter. I needed a new clutch pedal which the mechanic bought from fiat and charged me £118 plus VAT. Part of the pedal have broken away from where it is welded and it is this part that operates the clutch switch. The clutch switch is integral to the operation of the stop/start. Anyway he installed the new pedal which took him two hours to do, charging £75 per hour plus VAT. He reset the error codes and everything is now working fine. The stop/start operates as it should and the gear shift indicator also shows on the screen.

Thank you to everyone that took the time to read my posts.

Regards,
Babs

 

[Super Uwe]

Thanks for taking the time to let us know the end result.

I am by no means a technical/mechanical expert, but I am glad my suspicions about the clutch switch being linked to the S/S system proved to be right!

Pleased to hear it's all working again.

 

[stevethegold]

I've had this exact problem on my twinair 2012. The change up indicators stopped working, the accelerator pedal response went crazy and the hillholder/3000rpm limit with the clutch pedal depressed stopped working. My local alfa/ fiat specialist diagnosed the same broken semicircular part of the pedal assembly had come adrift but managed to re weld it, hopefully stronger than before. £150 all in so not too bad. Interestingly, the parts people he ordered from said they'd never been asked for a clutch pedal assembly so obviously not a regular problem. By the way, the stop start never worked on this car, even with a new battery. I don't think many do.

 

[Henry Yorke]

New to the forum and I have had exactly the same problem with my 2012 500 0.9 Twin Air. I made the mistake of a new battery but I cannot take that back. Like the OP I found a piece rattling behind the clutch pedal and have removed it as it may jam the clutch mechanism.
I can feel where it has broken on the shaft above the pedal so need to remove it to get it welded back on.
I am a little confused as to how to remove the shaft from doing some research. Some say take out the pedal box and some say the shaft can be undone at each end. Can anyone confirm please? Diagrams would be great!
I tried to upload a pic of the broken part but the phone function didn’t work

 

[mldev]

Obviously not as uncommon as fiat suggest... I have exactly the same problem... Welding failure... I have shown the broken part of the clutch pedal and also how it should be.

I would also like to see a diagram of the pedal box assembly for the twinair 0.9 2012

Anybody point me in the right direction I would certainly be grateful