Hi Guys,
New to these forums.
I am not sure if any one has done this type of conversion. I have brought my self a damaged fiat 500 twin air and removed all of the wiring / engine and out of the vehicle . My conversion is to install this motor into a classic fiat 500.
So far i have installed it into the car with all the ECU/Sensors etc and the wiring is under neath the car .For some reason it is not starting . :bang:Has any one started a twin air engine on the floor.
Happy to hear some suggestions

kid500 said:

Hi Guys,
New to these forums.
I am not sure if any one has done this type of conversion. I have brought my self a damaged fiat 500 twin air and removed all of the wiring / engine and out of the vehicle . My conversion is to install this motor into a classic fiat 500.
So far i have installed it into the car with all the ECU/Sensors etc and the wiring is under neath the car .For some reason it is not starting . :bang:Has any one started a twin air engine on the floor.
Happy to hear some suggestions

Click to expand...

Hi,
1, is it immobilised - key symbol
2, is the fuel priming
3, have you got sparks

that's the basics for combustion.. although of course it's a "Different" way of induction..,
Charlie

My first thought would be the immobiliser, closely followed by the fuel pump & fuel rail pressure.

It will be useful to know just what has to come with the original engine before it will work correctly - please keep us informed.

And the very best of luck with what sounds like an interesting project.

Does it actually crank over? When the key is turned.

What a marvellous idea. Love to get updates on this and would love to see a video of it on the move when it's all done.

varesecrazy said:

Hi,
1, is it immobilised - key symbol
2, is the fuel priming
3, have you got sparks

that's the basics for combustion.. although of course it's a "Different" way of induction..,
Charlie

Click to expand...

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the reply
It has a key reader,fuel is priming,there is also spark, it also cranks .I removed the fuel rail and checked the injectors to see if it sprays fuel while it cranks , all good.

kid500 said:

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the reply
It has a key reader,fuel is priming,there is also spark, it also cranks .I removed the fuel rail and checked the injectors to see if it sprays fuel while it cranks , all good.

Click to expand...

Will it run diagnostics? What happens if you connect it to MES?

jrkitching said:

Will it run diagnostics? What happens if you connect it to MES?

Click to expand...

Hi
That is my next question,this type of project can some one recommend a good scanner, something that can read all dash lights. I had a friend plug a scanner in and only speed sensor code came on.
I am not sure if i can use a aftermarket ECU,has anyone used one on a twin air?

kid500 said:

Hi
That is my next question,this type of project can some one recommend a good scanner, something that can read all dash lights. I had a friend plug a scanner in and only speed sensor code came on.

Click to expand...

Multiecuscan (MES) is really the only aftermarket option. €50 + some cables and a windows laptop.

Start out with the free download & some cables to check you can connect to all the relevant modules.

kid500 said:

I am not sure if i can use a aftermarket ECU,has anyone used one on a twin air?

Click to expand...

That's another project in itself, but this would be a great opportunity to do it.

In the UK, the age of the car would exempt the engine from all emissions legislation, so you could run without a cat. There are folks who've sucessfully adapted megasquirt to run with 2 cylinder engines on bikes, snowmobiles & even lawnmowers.

Personally I'd get it working with the standard ECU first, baseline that & then take it from there. I'd have thought 100HP would be reatively straightforward; I'm less sure how the classic 500 chassis is going to cope with that.

kid500 said:

Hi
That is my next question,this type of project can some one recommend a good scanner, something that can read all dash lights. I had a friend plug a scanner in and only speed sensor code came on.
I am not sure if i can use a aftermarket ECU,has anyone used one on a twin air?

Click to expand...

at this point - I would try a spray or an incandescent aerosol fuel,
and see if it will cough on that,

my prime suspect is still no injection.., the actuators may not be doing their thing if something isn't fully "in-tune"

varesecrazy said:

at this point - I would try a spray or an incandescent aerosol fuel,
and see if it will cough on that,

my prime suspect is still no injection.., the actuators may not be doing their thing if something isn't fully "in-tune"

Click to expand...

Like this; http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/fuel-oil-additives/bradex-easy-start-300ml

How long are you cranking for? The TA will need to crank for about 30 seconds to build oil pressure in the valve train before it fires for the first time.

John202020 said:

Like this; http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/fuel-oil-additives/bradex-easy-start-300ml

Click to expand...

that's the UK version, of a popular product,

in the antipodes it's got a "not-so PC" brandname

you can also use a trigger spray to make almost anything "mist"

CARE should of course be taken with ANYTHING FLAMMABLE

UFI said:

How long are you cranking for? The TA will need to crank for about 30 seconds to build oil pressure in the valve train before it fires for the first time.

Click to expand...

Hi
I am cranking for a while , a good 30 seconds until the battery starts going flat.
Do the actuators need oil pressure to work with the inlet valves?

Did you have a chance to see if the engine ran in the donor car before you removed it? So you seem to have fuel and a spark in old world engines that only leaves timing of either spark or injection or compression you could try disconnecting the lambda sensors and see if it starts

John202020 said:

Did you have a chance to see if the engine ran in the donor car before you removed it? So you seem to have fuel and a spark in old world engines that only leaves timing of either spark or injection or compression you could try disconnecting the lambda sensors and see if it starts

Click to expand...

Hi
Yes i did start the engine and drove the doner car.I think i will get my self a diagnostic tool first.I will disconnect the lambda sensors and let you know you. Thanks for the tip

kid500 said:

Hi
Yes i did start the engine and drove the doner car.I think i will get my self a diagnostic tool first.I will disconnect the lambda sensors and let you know you. Thanks for the tip

Click to expand...

Hi Guys,
There is one little thing which i did not mentioned,i left the map sensor out of the plenum chamber but it is connected.I have spoken to a couple a guys and they say it should not affect it from starting.Any thoughts?

Little thing,, yes you most certainly need the map sensor correctly installed!

kid500 said:

Hi
I am cranking for a while , a good 30 seconds until the battery starts going flat.
Do the actuators need oil pressure to work with the inlet valves?

Click to expand...

with a Diesel you'd need good cranking speed to obtain enough rail pressure to inject properly.

the TA is different..

but may still be reliant on rail pressure - weird how it ran ok before though

start with the obvious - what you've changed.

kid500 said:

Hi
I am cranking for a while , a good 30 seconds until the battery starts going flat.
Do the actuators need oil pressure to work with the inlet valves?

Click to expand...

Yes, on a seldom run engine the oil will drain away and it won't fire until there's enough oil in the UniAir/ Multiair unit to open those intake valves. Sounds like that's not your problem, but something to keep in mind.

Did you get that engine from that Volare Blue one on eBay? I almost bought that as a spare, now that TA's aren't sold here anymore a low km spare would be nice to have