Leo6 said:

Hi all I am also considering a new 500c lounge but am finding them hard to come by. What sort of prices are people paying for them? I wouldn't mind a low k Ta but they are also hard to come by and people seem to be paying over there redbook values to snap them up. Is this the case in other states?

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A new 500C Lounge Manual seems to be priced about $27k+, more for auto, so I expect used examples are going to come at a premium due to demand, especially when the only engine option is a 1.2 in a few months time. Prices for the discontinued Sport are very good, depending which side of the deal you're on.

TA's have only been available in auto for three years and I would guess they haven't sold well. It's really an enthusiast's engine and the lack of a manual can't have helped sales.

I'm just glad I bought mine when I did.

PS. Seen today - 2008 Pop, asking $10K.

UFI said:

Mito has been dropped from AU. The 500 is better anyway.

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Seems a bit debatable, given that the Mito is based on the Grande Punto platform, which in turn is based on an Opel Corsa. It's one size up from the Panda/500 platform and therefore benefits from improved ride, handling, and refinement.

That said, I wouldn't bother with it
The 500 is a better choice for a small car and the Giulietta is a better choice for a medium car. With the 500 overpriced and the Giulietta discounted, the gap in the middle seems hardly worth filling with an Alfa Romeo product (the Punto has ended up cheaper than the 500, so it would be much better value than a Mito; as in, half the price. I suppose some people pay a lot for a badge, but that has to be questioned in these days of shared platforms and even shared engines).

-Alex

Piccolo Nero e Bella said:

I'm just glad I bought mine when I did.

PS. Seen today - 2008 Pop, asking $10K.

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That's so true... one of the reasons I've convinced myself to sell our 500 (well, until each time I drive it) is the strong resale value. I'll be asking $10K (NZ$) and expecting $9K for our 'fully loaded' 2008 Lounge (originally $31K) and I feel this is quite reasonable when dealers are asking $13K for lesser-equipped, higher-mileage examples. Less than half the price of a new one which seems like an identical spec; even the alloy wheels look similar.

In contrast I bought a six-year-old Punto mk2 once, for just $5K, as the recently-released Grande Punto was far superior. Now, they've lost value the same as the earlier models.

Basically, because the 500 spec has stayed similar and the target market doesn't care about the differences, they seem to have held their value very well. The iPhone 5 of motoring...

-Alex

Piccolo Nero e Bella said:

TA's have only been available in auto for three years and I would guess they haven't sold well. It's really an enthusiast's engine and the lack of a manual can't have helped sales.

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Well, you can hardly call it an "auto" either (most automatic drivers would be unhappy with a Dualogic as you pretty much have to drive it manually to make smooth and swift progress ) I found this out when I sold my first 500 - people complained that they wanted a manual but the same people wouldn't use the Dualogic manually, enjoying instead to point out how the auto mode wasn't smooth enough. My feeling was that you got your manual with an auto mode as a bonus...

It seems that expectations change the moment the word 'auto' is used. I'm not clear on why anyone would want a manual instead of the Dualogic other than for the cost saving! But I suppose that wasn't the general perception.

The TA was horrendously expensive on our side of the world. It's laughable that the Panda was only sold with the TA/Dualogic (no other engines) for $14,990, but the 500 with TA/Dualogic was over $30,000!

I seriously thought about a swap - making our existing 500 into a TwinAir, then selling the leftover 1.4 Panda - but compliance/certification of the Panda would have been prohibitive.

So I approached the local dealership to buy a Panda anyway - as advertised on the fiat.co.nz website - and was told "we had one, but we sold it. They're not making any more!" :bang: and we wonder why FIAT don't sell many cars in Australia/NZ.

-Alex

alexGS said:

Well, you can hardly call it an "auto" either

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I even call my 500 without Dualogic "auto", but that's mainly because "auto" is Dutch for "car".

alexGS said:

the same people wouldn't use the Dualogic manually

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Driving a TA with Dualogic manually is a torture, since the Dualogic downshifts automatically at approximately 1600 rpm, even though it's in manual mode! During a test drive with such car it happened twice that both the Dualogic and I decided to downshift at about the same time resulting in a step of two gears instead of one! Very annoying!

alexGS said:

Well, you can hardly call it an "auto" either (most automatic drivers would be unhappy with a Dualogic as you pretty much have to drive it manually to make smooth and swift progress ) I found this out when I sold my first 500 - people complained that they wanted a manual but the same people wouldn't use the Dualogic manually, enjoying instead to point out how the auto mode wasn't smooth enough. My feeling was that you got your manual with an auto mode as a bonus...

It seems that expectations change the moment the word 'auto' is used. I'm not clear on why anyone would want a manual instead of the Dualogic other than for the cost saving! But I suppose that wasn't the general perception.

-Alex

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To be fair I really just used the term 'auto' above to distinguish them from the pure manual - I normally refer to it as the 'DL'. We have a DL 500C as well as my manual TA so I'm familiar with its quirks. I too always drive it manually but I really don't like it so much. I admit I've never driven a DL Twinair, which might feel quite different.

I also miss the fine control the clutch pedal gives in slow manoeuvring, particularly creeping towards my own car when squeezing them both into the driveway, where we have only inches to spare. We discussed it here a few weeks ago and the consensus seemed to be that it was not an ideal car for a newly minted auto-only driver.

I'll always go for a traditional manual and it has nothing to do with being cheaper - that's just my bonus!

Funny thing; I was at a dealership on Wednesday to test drive a car and the young man who was to accompany me said "Wait here and I'll fetch it around". He came back a couple of minutes later and said "Sorry, you'll have to come and get it - I can't drive a manual"! He's supposed to be 'selling' me the car - and he can't even drive it. I'm proud to say resisted muttering "Young people today - what's the world coming to?" in my best old fogey manner...

alexGS said:

Basically, because the 500 spec has stayed similar and the target market doesn't care about the differences, they seem to have held their value very well. The iPhone 5 of motoring...

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500 residuals have defied gravity since launch in the UK market also. An equivalent Mk3 Panda of similar vintage would likely only make half of 500 money.

I'd sell too, given those numbers.

Out of interest, what would a Nissan Micra of similar age & spec sell for in your market? There's no reason beyond fashion and desirablility for a 500 to make more than that.

IMO purchasers of used 500's out of warranty would be hard pressed to find a better way to pay a lot of money for a potential moneypit, particularly the dualogic versions.

OTOH, it might just be one of the best value deals for someone buying new on a pcp and trading away before the warranty ends.

A quick, and by no means definitive, flick through the AU used ads suggests the average ask for a 2013 Micra ST is about $7,500. A similar survey of 2013 500's brings up a figure of $14,000.

2013 because that's about when FCA took over distribution and dramatically reduced prices. A new Pop manual could be driven away for $13,000 and a Lounge for around $18,000 (TA + DL only). Prior to this new prices were from $25,000 to $30,000 , so stratospheric I, for one, didn't short-list (or even long-list!) the car I'd end up buying. They're more than halfway back up now of course.

Interestingly, and just to complicate the comparison, most of the FIATS had less than 50,000km up (some only half that or less) while most of the Micra's were over that figure. Perhaps the 500's were less frequently used as daily drivers... Our two, for example, are 2013 and only about 17,000km each.

2008 Fiat Lounge Manual New Price $27,990 Redbook Private Sale $8700 (I have seen some for around that money).

2008 Nissan Micra New Price $14,990 Redbook Private Sale $6,100

Not sure that 500's hold their value here. 2013 Pops are around the $11-12k mark, which is remarkable, but helped by the fact that they sold for $14k in 2013 and are now $18k.

jrkitching said:

Out of interest, what would a Nissan Micra of similar age & spec sell for in your market? There's no reason beyond fashion and desirablility for a 500 to make more than that.

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Interesting question!
A quick search found two 2008 FIAT 500 Pop examples for $10,500 and $11,000. Another quick search found a multitude of Nissan Micra/March examples - unlike Australia, NZ has used Jap imports. Most were around $6000.

The dealer change has had the same effect as in Australia. Early 500s were more expensive and often loaded with options - ours was $32400. Basic 500 was $27000. After the dealer change-over in 2010, 500s came with steel wheels and no climate aircon etc. but prices started at $21000. That did knock used values in the short term, though those options like the bigger wheels etc. helped preserve values.

IMO purchasers of used 500's out of warranty would be hard pressed to find a better way to pay a lot of money for a potential moneypit, particularly the dualogic versions.

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I agree, perhaps, for cars of this size. But compared to a Golf (a popular choice), the 500 is far more reliable and cheaper/easier to fix if something does go wrong. So while it might be a poor choice relative to a Micra, it's still a better choice than anything larger, more elaborate, and more expensive. There simply isn't that much to go wrong on a 500, compared to a Mercedes.

-Alex

Anyhow, to get back to the original question; I've decided the Series 4 500 is definitely not worth the money (in Australian guise in any case). My first FIAT will be my last and I'm kinda sad about that. Whether I eventually settle for the Mazda 2 or something else I know it'll never be as much fun as my little TA.

Piccolo Nero e Bella said:

Anyhow, to get back to the original question; I've decided the Series 4 500 is definitely not worth the money (in Australian guise in any case). My first FIAT will be my last and I'm kinda sad about that. Whether I eventually settle for the Mazda 2 or something else I know it'll never be as much fun as my little TA.

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Is keeping the TA you have not an option for you?

Pathaleon said:

Is keeping the TA you have not an option for you?

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Oh yes, we're keeping it whatever happens, but it won't be 'my' car anymore, it'll belong to my other half. I can still take it for the occasional blast (if I can clear enough junk out of the way to get in).

Piccolo Nero e Bella said:

Oh yes, we're keeping it whatever happens, but it won't be 'my' car anymore, it'll belong to my other half. I can still take it for the occasional blast (if I can clear enough junk out of the way to get in).

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What are the prices like on an abarth down under? Here they are rather competitive with the standard fiat variant id be tempted to go down that route unless economy is important.

Pathaleon said:

What are the prices like on an abarth down under? Here they are rather competitive with the standard fiat variant id be tempted to go down that route unless economy is important.

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New Abarth is way out of my league - Tourismo = $38,000. Low km used examples from 2014 are about equal to a new 500C. Finding a used one that hasn't been hammered might be the hardest part.

Piccolo Nero e Bella said:

New Abarth is way out of my league - Tourismo = $38,000. Low km used examples from 2014 are about equal to a new 500C. Finding a used one that hasn't been hammered might be the hardest part.

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Yeah that's that same here, obviously down to the nature of the car. Hot hatches made for the spirited driver!

Piccolo Nero e Bella said:

New Abarth is way out of my league - Tourismo = $38,000. Low km used examples from 2014 are about equal to a new 500C. Finding a used one that hasn't been hammered might be the hardest part.

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You know about the price drop to $27k, right? I think their aim is to replace the S with the cut price Abarth (595 IRC).

UFI said:

You know about the price drop to $27k, right? I think their aim is to replace the S with the cut price Abarth (595 IRC).

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No UFI, missed that memo! All I saw on the FIAT web-site was Tourismo and Competizione.

There was a picture of a 695 Biposto (looks like Darth Vader's spare helmet!) but no price. It would have to be pretty stripped out to sell for that and the one I saw is basically a racer - no AC, radio, back seats, stuff like that but with all imaginable go-faster gear.

http://www.fiat.com.au/abarth

Here you go:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/429088/...nch-in-q2-new-696-four-seater-on-the-horizon/

Should still have all the kit like A/C (ACC?) but miss out on the power upgrades and maybe the Essesse suspension. Won't know for sure until they announce further details.

The Biposto starts at $65k and the dog box adds $15k if you're that way inclined.

UFI said:

Here you go:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/429088/...nch-in-q2-new-696-four-seater-on-the-horizon/

Should still have all the kit like A/C (ACC?) but miss out on the power upgrades and maybe the Essesse suspension. Won't know for sure until they announce further details.

The Biposto starts at $65k and the dog box adds $15k if you're that way inclined.

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Right... thanks for that. Pity it wasn't the TA105 as you suggested it might be a while back, nonetheless could be a fun thing. I'll look forward to seeing more about it.

Gotta admit I can't wait to see that "17 inch" TFT screen...