Hi guys, I must say that 'on the limit', even with Bilstein B14's, the Fiat 500 has some funny handling, which I mainly attribute to the very short wheelbase. I took a corner much faster than I normally would have as I could see there was no traffic anywhere near me and there was plenty of space to spin off = ). It was a left hand 90 degree bend with about 4-5 lanes of space. Well I took the corner at about 60-80 km and yes, the Fiat 500 completely went sideways with some serious lift off oversteer! The ASR was all over the case so i stopped in a somewhat 'half spin'.

Now, this gets me to my point, that at the limit of its handling, the Fiat 500 always seems to have lift off oversteer and the rear always seems very loose, which can be scary in low grip conditions if you do not expect it. If its mid corner and you expect it, its actually quite fun and with a bit of correcting, sorts itself out without the ASR ever coming on. So i have been scared 2 times with excessive rear sliding and a few more times with 'fun rear breakage' that was easily sortable.
I must say though, I have never managed to understeer the car unless on max power in a bend, so I feel it really does well in this regard.

So as a city car, the Fiat 500 does the job really well, but I get a bit nervous driving it long distance in mountain roads in low grip conditions, the rear is simply not planted enough for me = )


Also, the 195 tires have more grip, so if you want the rear to be less nervous, get 195 high performance tires.

That's what it's supposed to do.

The rear suspension bushes deform and provide some element of toe in. Some people refer to it as passive rear steering.

Of course if you are brutal and or aggressive in your steering inputs it will not end welland your left with the electronics trying to figure it out. No matter how fast they are they can only react to something that has already happened.
This is always a poor substitute for proactive / smooth inputs from the driver. If you want to induce over steer by deliberately lifting off so be it but you should understand the dynamics beforehand, I grew out of that on public roads a while ago. Or as a professional driver told me when I did this (unintentionally and on a track)
"umm...big balls, small brain" he was right and it's stuck in my mind ever since.

RussH said:

"umm...big balls, small brain"

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Hmmm... I know which one I'd rather have If I was a man, that is...;












Dinosaurs had big balls and small brains, look where it got them!!!

Melanabb said:

Hmmm... I know which one I'd rather have If I was a man, that is...;












Dinosaurs had big balls and small brains, look where it got them!!!

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I assumed women thought that it's not possible to have one without the other

ahmett said:

Hi guys, I must say that 'on the limit', even with Bilstein B14's, the Fiat 500 has some funny handling, which I mainly attribute to the very short wheelbase.

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I mainly attribute it to your running the car with 2.6/2.5 bar in the tyres.

Good for economy, not so good for handling. The car is already light at the rear and running with 25% more rear tyre pressure than the book values will likely make the rear a bit skittish if you push it right to the limit.

jrkitching said:

I mainly attribute it to your running the car with 2.6/2.5 bar in the tyres.

Good for economy, not so good for handling. The car is already light at the rear and running with 25% more rear tyre pressure than the book values will make the rear a bit skittish.

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jrkitching what do you recommend for the best handling with 1 person in the car? I noticed that too low pressures 32 psi and under cause the car to be more 'slippery' all round.

ahmett said:

jrkitching what do you recommend for the best handling with 1 person in the car? I noticed that too low pressures 32 psi and under cause the car to be more 'slippery' all round.

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I'm more concerned with economy than getting the limit out of the handling so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

I'd start with what it says in the handbook, which itself is confusing since there seem to be several different published values. 2.2/2.0 seems to be the most often quoted figure. After that, it's trial and error; just be careful about the error bit as some body parts are expensive and much more importantly, I don't want you to hurt yourself; your own body parts are priceless.

A quick search has turned up this thread, but there are probably as many different opinions on this subject as there are people. Personally I suspect the choice of tyre brand and type will have more effect on the handling than a few percent difference in pressure. Also both the age & tread depth of the tyre will be significant factors.

Whatever you do, I doubt the 500's handling at the limit will ever compare with a properly set up performance hatch such as a Fiesta RS or Swift Sport.

jrkitching said:

I'm more concerned with economy than getting the limit out of the handling so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

I'd start with what it says in the handbook, which itself is confusing since there seem to be several different published values. 2.2/2.0 seems to be the most often quoted figure. After that, it's trial and error; just be careful about the error bit as some body parts are expensive and much more importantly, I don't want you to hurt yourself; your own body parts are priceless.

A quick search has turned up this thread, but there are probably as many different opinions on this subject as there are people. Personally I suspect the choice of tyre brand and type will have more effect on the handling than a few percent difference in pressure.

Whatever you do, I doubt the 500's handling at the limit will ever compare with a properly set up performance hatch such as a Fiesta RS or Swift Sport.

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That's what I found out! I never drive the car at the limit, but I always make sure I know what those limits are. So I decided to test it in a safe place where I knew I could make a mistake and not crash into anything or anyone. I feel its important to know the limits of the car.
It's obvious weight distribution of 70/30 (at best) is no good for a car at the limit. Obviously the Fiat 500 is not designed for performance driving, even with Bilstein suspension.

I think I will go back to 2.2/2.1, it should be fine. I am attaching the latest manual, which suggest 2.2/2.1 and 2.3/2.3 full load. I never go full load in the car anyway, i am 6ft3 so not like anyone can sit behind me = )

Thanks for the care and advice jrkitching, I will make sure I keep safe on the roads = )

If the back end is light .............. make it heavier.

In the old days, I ran Hillman Imps. They were very light at the front and could easily understeer so much, you went straight on. RWD with a rear engine and hardly any weight at the front unless you had a full fuel tank.

Many folk carried a couple of concrete blocks under the (front) bonnet and that cured it.

Therefore, why not carry a couple of blocks in the back of a 500 if you want the back less skittish?

Regards,
Mick.

Mick F said:

If the back end is light .............. make it heavier.

In the old days, I ran Hillman Imps. They were very light at the front and could easily understeer so much, you went straight on. RWD with a rear engine and hardly any weight at the front unless you had a full fuel tank.

Many folk carried a couple of concrete blocks under the (front) bonnet and that cured it.

Therefore, why not carry a couple of blocks in the back of a 500 if you want the back less skittish?

Regards,
Mick.

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My dear old Dad had an Austin A35 and carried 4 paving slabs, a shovel and 6 hessian sacks as a winter kit ! Needless to say, we never got stuck for long..

My new Twingo has 45:55 weight distribution due to engine being in the back and, as I had only front engined cars, this takes getting used to. The car just behaves differently in the corners. I'm not saying I'm not liking it though... From memory I do remember 500 being quite skittish in the back, even to say sometimes unsettled in the corners

Lifting off mid-corner is always a bad idea. The approach speed should always be assessed according to view and severity of corner, then keep the engine pulling all the way through. So many crashes are caused by drivers letting go instead of hanging in there.

Back in the dim distant past I was told " slow in fast out " it's always worked for me.

werdna said:

Back in the dim distant past I was told " slow in fast out " it's always worked for me.

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agree completely. early on the power! I was just testing exactly how fast i can go into this corner without 'losing the rear' = ) It wasnt a matter of understeering off due to taking the corner too fast, it was a matter of the rear of the car losing it = )

Melanabb said:

My new Twingo has 45:55 weight distribution due to engine being in the back and, as I had only front engined cars, this takes getting used to. The car just behaves differently in the corners. I'm not saying I'm not liking it though... From memory I do remember 500 being quite skittish in the back, even to say sometimes unsettled in the corners

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Exactly. If/when I replace this car I am going RWD for sure. No more FWD barges with 70/30 weight distribution! I was driving a 2.0 TDI VW Jetta the other day and wow was that a barge!

Mick F said:

If the back end is light .............. make it heavier.

In the old days, I ran Hillman Imps. They were very light at the front and could easily understeer so much, you went straight on. RWD with a rear engine and hardly any weight at the front unless you had a full fuel tank.

Many folk carried a couple of concrete blocks under the (front) bonnet and that cured it.

Therefore, why not carry a couple of blocks in the back of a 500 if you want the back less skittish?

Regards,
Mick.

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Those were the days.

We improved the handling no end on a traded in 2.0l ford Capri many years back at work by putting a few sacks of snow melting salt we had in the store room. Otherwise all the weight was up front between the front wheels, with next to no weight over the driving wheels at the back.... Still good fun in the wet

ahmett said:

Exactly. If/when I replace this car I am going RWD for sure. No more FWD barges with 70/30 weight distribution! I was driving a 2.0 TDI VW Jetta the other day and wow was that a barge!

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When exactly do you plan to replace this car, seriously it's not that expensive to buy an old bmw if you want some rwd fun

Still plenty of Fwd cars with very good handling out there but when it comes to high performance, front wheel drive with exceptional handling a standard spec fiat 500 isn't going to top that list any time soon

AndyRKett said:

When exactly do you plan to replace this car, seriously it's not that expensive to buy an old bmw if you want some rwd fun

Still plenty of Fwd cars with very good handling out there but when it comes to high performance, front wheel drive with exceptional handling a standard spec fiat 500 isn't going to top that list any time soon

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ummm im in Greece = ) do you watch the news?

BMW 1 series here are 17,000 Euros used = ) My car is worth 5,000 EUR here. So I would need 12,000 EUR cash to change my car.

Finance? You must be joking! again i'm in Greece, most people cant even get credit cards!

ahmett said:

ummm im in Greece = ) do you watch the news?

BMW 1 series here are 17,000 Euros used = ) My car is worth 5,000 EUR here. So I would need 12,000 EUR cash to change my car.

Finance? You must be joking! again i'm in Greece, most people cant even get credit cards!

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Just had a look on a Greek motors site and a 2008 500 seems to be about €8-10k where as a bmw 1 series seems to be about the same money for a slightly older car.

Yes if you are going to sell your car cheap (which you are by the sounds of it) and buy a much newer more expensive car then you are going to have quite a difference to make up so stick to what you can afford. A €17k 1 series is from 2014 for a low spec car or a 2012 for a high spec car it seems.

If you're not planning on changing it anytime soon then it's better to be happy with what you have got than what you can't afford

ahmett said:

So as a city car, the Fiat 500 does the job really well, but I get a bit nervous driving it long distance in mountain roads in low grip conditions, the rear is simply not planted enough for me = )

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Mick F said:

If the back end is light .............. make it heavier.

Therefore, why not carry a couple of blocks in the back of a 500 if you want the back less skittish?

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Ahmett,
If you fancy experimenting, would you weight the back-end down and do the same again?

Maybe a 25Kg sack of something carried on the boot floor would suffice. Perhaps 50Kg? (A normal chunky adult like me weighs nigh-on 80Kg)

I'd be very interested if you could repeat the run with the weight in the back to see if it makes any difference.

Thanks,
Mick.