..and how my car car is trying to break me...



Car in question is an 08 Fiat 500 1.3 16v diesel.



A few days ago (think Thursday last week) the DPF clogged warning light and message came on. Drove like I normally do when that happens (stick ti 3rd gear and revs in the 2-3.5k range) and that did not clear it as usual. So saturday morning went for a run out on main A road down here for 10 miles out and 10 back, sticking to 4th and revs in the 3k range.



The good news is that is did clear finally after the 20 miles, but the car decided to throw up a warning light for Engine Oil Change. Bit strange as it was only changed back in June when the glow plug that had snapped off when it was being changed had to be bored out and the engine flushed...but that is a whole other story.



Checked oil level and all was good, but topped up with a litre of fresh to take level to max on dip stick. Then had to use MultiECUScan to get in and reset service indication and also the oil change indication. All was looking good.



Checked the DPF and the level on there said 34%......so thats good thinks me. Drive 2 miles to go collect Mrs S rom work and the DPF clogged light comes back on.....Sunday do another 20 odd miles run and the light clears.



Now this morning after onlyh doing a run to collect Mrs S from work and then a 6 miles too and from work for me yesterday, the bloody DPF clogged light is back on.



Anyone any idea what the hell is going on?



Does it sound like the DPF is on it's way out? Do I need to go on a slighlty longer journey to fully clear the filter? How likely is the car to conk out on me? We are planning to go to London for New Year and Mrs S not happy with going in the car at the moment



This is the end of the line for the car...has cost far too much in the way of money and trouble. WIll be getting sold as Mrs S is getting a new Mini on lease from work adn that is due in 8 weeks or so.

Have connected up and get the following readings re the DPF and Oil

Oil deg level - 83.921%
Oil Change Counter - 9
Odometer at last forced regen - 101603.3km
Odometer at last spontaneous regen - 0km
Odometer at last forced regen - 0km
Particulate filter clogging - 36.59%
Particle Filter Temp - 36 degrees
Regenration Process - 0.000%
Forced regeneration state - Generic error

This was when I was sat in a car park and after some town driving. Rechecked after a town pootle around and got the following

Odometer at last forced regen - 101614.4.3km
Odometer at last spontaneous regen - 9.2km
Odometer at last forced regen - 9.2km
Particulate filter clogging - 34.97%
Particle Filter Temp - 36 degrees
Regenration Process - 0.000%
Forced regeneration state - Generic error
Total number of regenrations - 209

The big question is...what the hell is going on? The oil deg level was at 100% when I reset it on sunday....so using the car for about 20 miles worht of driving has caused a 16% degredation in the oil? Realsise it does not actually sample the oil, but uses an algorhtym to work things out, but this does seem very excessive to me.

I put some additive in just now and will take the car out on long run tonight. Will have the ECUScan connected so can see what happens to the temp of the filter. I was under the impression that the temp would be somewhere of 400 degrees upwards when it was regenerating.

Shelster1973 said:

Have connected up and get the following readings re the DPF and Oil

Oil deg level - 83.921%
Oil Change Counter - 9
Odometer at last forced regen - 101603.3km
Odometer at last spontaneous regen - 0km
Odometer at last forced regen - 0km
Particulate filter clogging - 36.59%
Particle Filter Temp - 36 degrees
Regenration Process - 0.000%
Forced regeneration state - Generic error

This was when I was sat in a car park and after some town driving. Rechecked after a town pootle around and got the following

Odometer at last forced regen - 101614.4.3km
Odometer at last spontaneous regen - 9.2km
Odometer at last forced regen - 9.2km
Particulate filter clogging - 34.97%
Particle Filter Temp - 36 degrees
Regenration Process - 0.000%
Forced regeneration state - Generic error
Total number of regenrations - 209

The big question is...what the hell is going on? The oil deg level was at 100% when I reset it on sunday....so using the car for about 20 miles worht of driving has caused a 16% degredation in the oil? Realsise it does not actually sample the oil, but uses an algorhtym to work things out, but this does seem very excessive to me.

I put some additive in just now and will take the car out on long run tonight. Will have the ECUScan connected so can see what happens to the temp of the filter. I was under the impression that the temp would be somewhere of 400 degrees upwards when it was regenerating.

Click to expand...

im no expert but could it be that the DPF is done for?

Go to a tractor supply and get yourself a big 4l tin of DPF cleaner. I ran DPF cleaner in ever tank and no more DPF lights, as soon as I tried to run straight diesel the DPF light would come on every 200km again.

Shelster1973 said:

Have connected up and get the following readings re the DPF and Oil

Oil deg level - 83.921%
Oil Change Counter - 9
Odometer at last forced regen - 101603.3km
Odometer at last spontaneous regen - 0km
Odometer at last forced regen - 0km
Particulate filter clogging - 36.59%
Particle Filter Temp - 36 degrees
Regenration Process - 0.000%
Forced regeneration state - Generic error

This was when I was sat in a car park and after some town driving. Rechecked after a town pootle around and got the following

Odometer at last forced regen - 101614.4.3km
Odometer at last spontaneous regen - 9.2km
Odometer at last forced regen - 9.2km
Particulate filter clogging - 34.97%
Particle Filter Temp - 36 degrees
Regenration Process - 0.000%
Forced regeneration state - Generic error
Total number of regenrations - 209

The big question is...what the hell is going on? The oil deg level was at 100% when I reset it on sunday....so using the car for about 20 miles worht of driving has caused a 16% degredation in the oil? Realsise it does not actually sample the oil, but uses an algorhtym to work things out, but this does seem very excessive to me.

I put some additive in just now and will take the car out on long run tonight. Will have the ECUScan connected so can see what happens to the temp of the filter. I was under the impression that the temp would be somewhere of 400 degrees upwards when it was regenerating.

Click to expand...

Gosh knows . From the work you have done already, you likely know more about the 500 DPF than most of us here. I doubt there are many who truly understand how the diagnostic software really works and what it is saying, even within the franchised dealer network.

As to the oil, I'd never condone resetting the degradation counter without changing the oil & filter; the risk of ruining an expensive engine is just too great. Timing chains are a known weakness of the 1.3mJet (this thread is current in the Panda section) & running with degraded oil is just asking for trouble. Assuming the oil is still serviceable on the basis of time &/or mileage is, I'd say, unjustified on a DPF diesel without a proper lab analysis of an oil sample, and as that will cost you as much as buying some oil & a filter, why not just change it.

Pragmatically, with the help of a little (or even a lot) of DPF cleaner, it'll likely hold together if you're selling the car in a couple of months (though I do feel sorry for whoever buys it). Getting rid is, IMO, a wise plan, though I'd say the same for almost any DPF-equipped diesel passenger car; with all the uncertainty following the VW scandal, trading in while the car has at least some residual value could be a smart move. The game has changed; we're not in Kansas anymore.

ahmett said:

im no expert but could it be that the DPF is done for?

Click to expand...

35% clogging isn't the kind of reading I'd expect if the DPF is done for, though at 100000km it's probably within the parameters to be considered end of life.

Diagnosing this from a computer keyboard isn't possible; it could just as easily be a DPF sensor issue. As the OP quite rightly says, WTF knows?

AIUI, aftermarket DPF's can be had for around £200 (so not necessarily a major catastrophe unless you take it to a franchised dealer), but I'd want to be wearing protective equipment suitable for use in a nuclear reprocessing plant before trying to fit one myself.

Went for the long drive last night and managed to get rid of the DPF light.....for it to be replaced with the Check Engine Light.

When I checked it was reporting Escessive Regen Time.....cheers for that.

Drive was done at 70mph, 3.5k rpm and ran for 25 mins.

I did log the paramters and have graphed it, but being at work, can't get an image of it uploaded at the moment as can't get on image sharing sites.

Max temp of the particle filter was 125 degrees c after 18 mins of driving. As mentioned, surely this should be in teh hundreds of degrees (I was expecting somehting like 3-400 for this reading).

I am now suspecting the temp sensor has gone faulty and this is messing with the ECU working out where the DPF is in it's regen cycles....ECU thinking 'tmep is too low, must be blocked, need to regen, why is temp not rising, somehting wrong with the regen cycle, must put more diesel in..........' and the keeps going at this.

Two quick questions.....anyone know where to get a new temp sensor and how much are they? If they are silly money, does a new DPF come with a temp sensor?

Finally am getting somewhere, but is really annoying me.

Can see why DPF's are the spawn of the devil...have done nearlly 100 miles trying to sort this out...that has to be really good for the environment. So glad we are getting rid and going petrol

If the old sensor is seized in place it might be prudent to replace the lot. A snapped off sensor is no fun if you rely on the car.

Don't know if its relevant, but my hubby's Volvo had a broken DPF sensor and the car kept doing regen constantly until it was changed.

Shelster1973 said:

Two quick questions.....anyone know where to get a new temp sensor and how much are they?

Click to expand...

A quick internet search has turned up this.

Cheap if it works, but a lot of money if it doesn't. Getting the old one off might prove interesting. Sorry that you seem to be the guinea pig - I'm sure you won't be the last person facing this issue.

It would seem there's also a pressure sensor, but the results you've previously posted would lead me to suspect the temp sensor as the more likely culprit.

Do you keep a close enough eye on your fuel consumption to notice if anything's changed?

Good luck, and please keep us informed - the outcome could be useful to a lot of folks in the future. One post showing us how to fix these sort of issues affordably is worth at least a hundred posts whining about how often the 500 throws a hissy fit.