General need advice asap 1.3 multijet won't start don't think its dead battery

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General need advice asap 1.3 multijet won't start don't think its dead battery

Do the lights (interior or head lights) dim when you try to start it?

If so that would indicate that the starter is electrically connected and trying to turn the engine over. So that would point to the starter. Unless it's the solenoid that connects the battery more or less directly to the starter.

If no change in lights that points to something like immobilizer.
 
No lights don't dim. If its immobiliser how how do we go about that what can we check as a test etc?
 
Oh and no yellow lock warning light comes up on dash which in manual says that's if the code doesn't match the car in keys.
 
Oh dear.
This is getting a bit strange.

Maybe a complete red herring, but I had a problem with ours with similar symptoms. I never got to the bottom of the problem and it disappeared when I was experimenting.

I found that ours wouldn't start at all. Completely silent. No dimming of lights, just silence ........... just like yours.

I read the handbook, it said quite plainly that you should select neutral and depress the clutch in order to start the car.

I habitually always select neutral but also habitually leave the clutch alone. This has served me faithfully for over 45 years of driving ................... until I bought a Fiat500.

Ours refused to start unless I depressed the clutch ................ but over the past few months, it doesn't seem to worry one way or another despite experimenting until I'm blue in the face. :confused:

As I said, I never got to the bottom of this.

Therefore, have you tried depressing the clutch like what I had to do?

Good luck,
Mick.
 
Everything still points to the battery -> engine earth strap being broken/corroded everything you've done so far pushes it further and further towards this diagnosis.

You just clearly don't want to believe it can be this simple.
 
ImageUploadedByFIAT Forum1449731513.487636.jpg

Second engine earth added to the top of the engine and never had a problem since
 
I really would like it to be that simple but I tried with a thick 6awg earch cable which I had and held it on neg to engine while someone turned the key and nothing. Even tried it with the jump lead cable. Honesty I have listened to your advice and checked
 
I really would like it to be that simple but I tried with a thick 6awg earch cable which I had and held it on neg to engine while someone turned the key and nothing. Even tried it with the jump lead cable. Honesty I have listened to your advice and checked
Sorry to keep flogging this one but is the area you are connecting to on the engine super clean?

Any but of aluminum alloy oxidation acts like a virtual insulator, trying to pass any amps through this only makes it worse.

IMHO once you've truly eliminated this it sounds like an immobilizer issue. My next port of call would be a good auto electrician rather than a mechanic.
 
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Everything still points to the battery -> engine earth strap being broken/corroded everything you've done so far pushes it further and further towards this diagnosis.

You just clearly don't want to believe it can be this simple.

Whilst that was probably the most likely cause about three pages of posts back, I'd say the OP has already done sufficient to rule it out in this case. That said, permanently wiring a second earth between engine block & chassis would definitively rule this out and also reduce the risk of any future earthing problems.

It's hard to diagnose a car from a keyboard, but I'll add my two cents worth, just in case it helps. Unfortunately I've no direct experience of the 500 starting system so I can only talk in terms of general principles.

1) IIRC the immobiliser only disables the ignition, not the starter motor - I once had an immobiliser failure on a 500 due to a bad key transponder and, from memory, the engine would turn normally but not fire; plus I got a yellow warning triangle. Personally I'd forget the immobiliser & look elsewhere.

2) That leaves the ignition switch, a first stage relay (if there is one), the starter solenoid (often built into the starter motor these days), or the starter motor itself. If any of these are stuck or broken, you'll get the symptoms the OP is describing. Listen carefully in the vicinity of the starter motor & you might be able to hear the click of the solenoid when the key is turned. Also you may be able to probe for a voltage in the relevant places if you have suitable test equipment and a second person to turn the key. If the main LT feed & return from the battery to the starter solenoid are sound, disconnecting the rest of the wiring from the starter assembly and applying +12V in the right place should also get the motor to spin normally - if you can find the right terminal and get access to it :rolleyes:.

3) Sticking solenoids used to be quite common forty years ago when they were generally located remotely from the starter motor; they sometimes had a button on them to enable you to manually activate the starter from inside the engine bay. (If your car didn't have one, you could even buy a gadget with a button on it that clipped between the battery & solenoid live feed so you could turn the engine on the starter with the ignition disabled from inside the engine bay).***

4) Worn or sticking brushes inside the starter motor will also give you similar symptoms.

I've not worked on the Mjet, but if it's possible to reasonably easily remove the starter motor & solenoid, I'd most likely do that next & bench test it. Fifty years ago, dismantling a starter motor to clean & regrease it, replacing the brushes & bearings when necessary would have been called routine maintenance. The general principles still hold good today, though you might find it hard to get any published information on the internals of the starter motor.

I had exactly this problem on a previous (non-Fiat) car and it turned out to be the brushes in the starter motor had worn out; replacing the brushes was all it took to fix it permanently and I was able to save myself the expense of a new starter motor. The local factor had a big cardboard box full of loose brushes; he invited me to "rummage around in there & if you can find anything useful you can have it for a quid". I found a set of copper brushes that were an exact match but with the wrong tags; five minutes with a soldering iron was all it took to transfer the old tags to the new brushes & that was another £200 saved :).

*** Amazingly you still can - here is a modern version, though a tad expensive for what's basically a switch & two bits of wire.
 
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Set aside tonight to take starter motor off how easy is it I know where it is but looked tight when I was under there the other day. Do I have to take anything else off to get it off or easier. Looked on google for PDF files for like Haynes manual but can only find handbook PDF for how to move your seat and what buttons do.
 
Set aside tonight to take starter motor off how easy is it I know where it is but looked tight when I was under there the other day. Do I have to take anything else off to get it off or easier. Looked on google for PDF files for like Haynes manual but can only find handbook PDF for how to move your seat and what buttons do.

There's a complete electronic workshop manual for the 500 in the downloads section. It's a little out of date but it covers the 1.3 mJet.

Let us know how you get on.
 
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Set aside tonight to take starter motor off how easy is it I know where it is but looked tight when I was under there the other day. Do I have to take anything else off to get it off or easier. Looked on google for PDF files for like Haynes manual but can only find handbook PDF for how to move your seat and what buttons do.

:rolleyes:

The Haynes manual is less than 15 quid on Amazon (and considerably cheaper elsewhere).

And people wonder why and moan when Haynes don't produce manuals for their car.
 
Thank you I have downloaded the files but can't seem to open them after I extracted them :(
 
Thank you I have downloaded the files but can't seem to open them after I extracted them :(

You need to burn the .iso file to a CD, or mount it in a virtual CD drive using daemontools lite (freeware) or similar.

Sometimes figuring out computer software is more challenging than figuring out what's wrong with the car.
 
Could be a bad ignition switch, a faulty relay or a cable fault.

My multijet has a funny ignition switch, theres a starter interlock, once you crank the engine you cannot crank it again without switching off, and switching the ignition on to get the glowplugs working sometimes operates the interlock so I have to warm the glow plugs, switch off then back on and start, I think this is what the dealer was on about.
I also suspect the dealer or previous owner knew something was up.

Anyway you can make the starter turn by powering the solenoid directly, but this can be dangerous so maybe you should take it off, once off you can do this, youtube testing a starter motor for details. You could also connect a testlight to the solenoid and see if it lights when the switch is turned to the crank position, this is a lot easier than pulling the starter as it will tell you if the starter is at least getting the go signal.

I dont reccomend tow starting a multijet, I heard the timing chain can break doing this.
 
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Could be a bad ignition switch, a faulty relay or a cable fault.

My multijet has a funny ignition switch, theres a starter interlock, once you crank the engine you cannot crank it again without switching off, and switching the ignition on to get the glowplugs working sometimes operates the interlock so I have to warm the glow plugs, switch off then back on and start, I think this is what the dealer was on about.

Anyway you can make the starter turn by powering the solenoid directly, but this can be dangerous so maybe you should take it off, once off you can do this, youtube testing a starter motor for details. You could also connect a testlight to the solenoid and see if it lights when the switch is turned to the crank position, this is a lot easier than pulling the starter as it will tell you if the starter is at least getting the go signal.

ALL FIAT's need to be turned off after an initial crank,
all my petrols anyway..;)

I would get the contactor disc in the ign. barrel assembly checked - as the lights don't dim:eek:
:idea: unlock the steering columns rake adjuster and move through it's full range of travel several times.. returning to a neutral spot and lock the clamp , then try ign. again,

wouldn't be the 1st time the cabling has been tugged too tight for a reliable connection.:(

unless you're REALLY rough with clutch engagement , the crank driving the camshaft is exactly the same as on the starter:rolleyes:



tovtm
remind me.. how many miles in this 500..??
 
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Its a shame he didn't because i have the exact problem now :/ 5 years later any chance mate?
 
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