PS.
Another bit on that link:

In 2013 it was reported that 2 million photocard licences issued since 1998 had expired but had not yet been renewed.

Click to expand...

I maintain that although it is illegal to not renew your photocard, it's hardly worth worrying about. Yes, do it of course, but if millions of people haven't renewed, and no-one has been fined (as per the date of the publication of that website), I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

You are entitled to drive by dint of passing your test, and DVLA and the police know this. Your DL could have been eaten by the dog(!) but you are still legally able to drive.

Mick.

Mick F said:

PS.
Another bit on that link:


I maintain that although it is illegal to not renew your photocard, it's hardly worth worrying about. Yes, do it of course, but if millions of people haven't renewed, and no-one has been fined (as per the date of the publication of that website), I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

You are entitled to drive by dint of passing your test, and DVLA and the police know this. Your DL could have been eaten by the dog(!) but you are still legally able to drive.

Mick.

Click to expand...

And of the 2 million, how many are dead, or no longer living in the country.......

Your argument is null unvoid imo. Passing your test doesn't give you entitlement to drive - can't use that excuse when your license has been revoked or suspended.

I don't agree.

If your DL has been confiscated/revoked/officially removed/suspended/etc, that is an entirely different subject.

If you lose your DL or it's been eaten by the parrot, are you breaking the law by continuing to drive? No, you're not.

There is no law that states you have to have a DL in your possession let alone on your person.

By not renewing your photocard DL when the ten years is passed, it doesn't mean that you are no longer entitled to drive. All you are guilty of, is not renewing your photocard DL, and according to the AA, no-one has been fined for it as yet.

TTFN
Mick.

Mick F said:

I don't agree.

If your DL has been confiscated/revoked/officially removed/suspended/etc, that is an entirely different subject.

If you lose your DL or it's been eaten by the parrot, are you breaking the law by continuing to drive? No, you're not.

There is no law that states you have to have a DL in your possession let alone on your person.

By not renewing your photocard DL when the ten years is passed, it doesn't mean that you are no longer entitled to drive. All you are guilty of, is not renewing your photocard DL, and according to the AA, no-one has been fined for it as yet.

TTFN
Mick.

Click to expand...

If the Parrott ate your DL then it is still current & valid. If it has expired then it is neither current or valid regardless of who ate it. In Ireland it's law to carry a valid licence at all times.

Mick F said:

I don't agree.

If your DL has been confiscated/revoked/officially removed/suspended/etc, that is an entirely different subject.

If you lose your DL or it's been eaten by the parrot, are you breaking the law by continuing to drive? No, you're not.

There is no law that states you have to have a DL in your possession let alone on your person.

By not renewing your photocard DL when the ten years is passed, it doesn't mean that you are no longer entitled to drive. All you are guilty of, is not renewing your photocard DL, and according to the AA, no-one has been fined for it as yet.

TTFN
Mick.

Click to expand...

If you lost your licence or ate it, a PNC check will still say it's valid. If the renewal date has passed then it will come up as expired on the PNC and the police will hassle you. It will also make your insurance invalid (except 3rd party but they can still claim that back from you) see http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/advice/news/archive/is-your-insurance-valid/. So no, eaten is not the same as expired.


Robert G8RPI.

The trouble is, there is a dual standard here.
If you still have the green paper DL, it doesn't expire until your 70th birthday (or the day after?).

If you have a photocard DL, you are disadvantaged in that you have to renew it every ten years and it costs you each and every time ........... plus it's illegal NOT to renew it.

From what I remember, we got our photocard DLs here because we wanted them, not because we were forced to have them. It's cost us money to transfer to photocard, and it's cost us money to renew them ten years later. If you renew when you are 69, you only get one year when you have to renew again!

I wish I'd never bothered!

The paper part of the photocard DL is the actual licence, not the photocard. The paper part doesn't expire, just your photograph on your photocard. The paper part is no longer needed to be kept personally, but if you want a copy from DVLA you can download one .......... at a cost? It's the paper part that holds your driving "history" and "punishments" and DVLA keep that record up to date, and it's the paper part that makes a difference and "licences" you to drive.

It's a complicated subject.
It's not just a simple photocard like a bus pass or a library ticket, nor even like a credit card etc.

Thanks,
Mick.

Jeez Mick, let it go!

Sorry.
I've got a bee in my bonnet and I tend to go on a bit.

I think the thing is with the photocard D/L, is that for those of us who have held them for years, and they've been out a very long time now! as jrkitching pointed out in an earlier post, they are an accepted form of ID. I use my photocard D/L all the time down the Royal Mail sorting office to collect parcels that need signing for. I certainly wouldn't want to be carrying my passport around all the time.

If you're carrying an old style paper licence, effectively, they can't be used as a proper form of ID, they are now effectively, pointless....see what I did there

I do however have a huge bee in my own bonnet, the cost of renewal at expiry time is an absolute joke. I can tell you now, as I used to produce identity cards in the work place for the employees of a very large Blue Chip company, that each plastic card only costs about 20 pence and then there is the cost of the machinery, but even so, it doesn't cost anymore than about a quid to produce an identity card. So why the DVLA charge so much for a poxy bit of plastic, is beyond me, ah, yes, I do know why, because charging either £14 or £17 is a complete money spinner. :bang:

And just to regale a sad tale of someone I know who passed their test on the third attempt regarding their licence. On passing, the person concerned bought a car, insured it and merrily drove around in it for two years. One day said person got a letter through the door informing them their licence had been revoked. The reason? Well, said person 'forgot' to post to DVLA the slip that is handed to you when you've passed your test. Bizarre than anyone would forget to do that, but they did. They've never retaken their test and no longer drive!

I know we've strayed massively off topic from the original post, but I'm glad that there will soon be a process whereby Doctors will be required to inform DVLA of a person's fitness to drive if there are serious medical concerns about the patient instead of leaving the patient to decide whether or not they are fit to drive. We've all seen recently, that there are some people out there who should not be driving at all due to medical issues and the devastating consequences that can arise.

frupi said:

...............but I'm glad that there will soon be a process whereby Doctors will be required to inform DVLA of a person's fitness to drive if there are serious medical concerns about the patient instead of leaving the patient to decide whether or not they are fit to drive............

Click to expand...

Absolutely!

It has never ceased to amaze me how doctors could only advise, and not report officially.

Thanks,
Mick.

Coming from a country where you are legally obliged to have an ID on you at all times (something called 'Personal card") and that the police are allowed to check it at their will- it always amazes me the freedom that people in this country have and usually can't appreciate. Get your DL updated and be thankful that some idiot in the uniform can't play bully and fine you (or put you in jail) for the simple fact you forgot to take it with you!

Mick F said:

PS.
Another bit on that link:


I maintain that although it is illegal to not renew your photocard, it's hardly worth worrying about. Yes, do it of course, but if millions of people haven't renewed, and no-one has been fined (as per the date of the publication of that website), I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

You are entitled to drive by dint of passing your test, and DVLA and the police know this. Your DL could have been eaten by the dog(!) but you are still legally able to drive.

Mick.

Click to expand...

Just checked with one of my friends that was fined.
They were not fined for not renewing as per the web site, but failing to produce a valid licence at a police station within a given time. You're quite right the police don't give a crap about it being out of date at the time you're stopped, just as if you'd lost it or left it at home, but you're asked to produce a valid licence within a given time and unfortunately my friend couldn't find the paper copy. Not such a problem now that you can down load and print off. At the time however home printed or photo copies were not accepted. If his card had been in date at the time he was stopped he would have avoided the fine and the points.

muttleysdad said:

You're quite right the police don't give a crap about it being out of date at the time you're stopped......

......At the time however home printed or photo copies were not accepted. If his card had been in date at the time he was stopped he would have avoided the fine and the points.

Click to expand...

Just to be clear, in terms of the licence itself, 4b on the front of the licence, is not the date of expiry of the licence, it is the date of expiry of the photograph on the licence. The actual expiry date on the licence, is at column 11 on the back of the licence and this normally expires on your 70th birthday when you have to reapply (and subsequently every 3 years thereafter), albeit without any formal medical checks

The point is, we could all cry and moan about renewal every 10 years until the cows come home, but a photograh doesn't age, the living person does! I remember, my first photocard licence, ten years down the line, I look quite different, grey hair, wizened features etc So yes, I absolutely agree with the need for renewal, just not the cost. I'm afraid though, I have little sympathy with those that either through their own neglect, failure to take personal responsibility for their own admin, or just downright pigheadedness, won't renew and subsequently get fined. Whether people choose to believe it or not, DVLA do send out renewal notices, some people however just ignore them or would rather renew their satellite TV contract!

The following link is an interesting read and helps clear up the confusion surrounding the expiry of a photocard licence:

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/blog/ent...tos-do-not-invalidate-driving-licences/46025/

And to further confuse the issue with regard to payment, although your driving licence expires at age 70 and you then have to renew it every three years, you don't have to pay to do this and you can also update your photo at the same time for free.

https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence-at-70

Yep.
It costs money to convert from old paper licence to the photocard licence.
If you have the old paper licence, you can keep it until it expires on your 70th birthday, but you'll have to pay for a new photocard licence.

However, if you already have a photocard licence on your 70th birthday, the renewal costs nothing.

Mrs Mick F's photocard licence expires when she's 68, so she'll have to pay the full price to renew for ten years ............ except her's will only last two years. No discount is available ........... I've asked.

Even if your photocard expires when you are 69y 11m old, you still have to pay the full price for a licence only lasting a month!

I've spoken to a friend who's an ex-copper. He says that driving without a licence isn't endorseable for somebody entitled to hold a full licence and he can't see a load of pensioners getting anything more than a written warning.

I reckon that Mrs Mick F should risk it and not renew her licence at 68 and wait for the freeby at 70.

Cheers!
Mick.

If you think photocard driving licence renewals are a ripoff, I wonder what you think about passport renewal fees?

Please remember the forum rules regarding suitable language when constructing your reply...

Mick F said:

Absolutely!



It has never ceased to amaze me how doctors could only advise, and not report officially.



Thanks,

Mick.

Click to expand...

What a load of rubbish, all that was in the news recently was advice from the GMC to reassure doctors they would not face sanctions for reporting these things and breaching confidentiality was in the interests of the larger public. Nothing has or is changing, it was nearly to encourage doctors to feel more confident about speaking up. As someone who's is married to a doctor I know she has reported people or more specifically their conditions/health to the dvla in order to have their license revoked.

We have lots of friends who are doctors and most of them will have at least one story of having to report someone to the DVLA

Does it cost to change address on a photocard? And can you update the photo at that point also to save having to do it again at a later date?

To change address or details, it costs nothing, but I ain't got a clue if you can change your photo at the same time.

I would expect that if you change address mid-term, your new photocard will expire when the old one did. If it didn't, people would be changing registered addresses to save money!

As far as I know, the address doesn't have to be your HOME address. It could be your father's address ............ for instance. You could swap over every 9 years.

Regards,
Mick.