Hello all, spoken to them about a DPF removal ( gutting and ECU delete ) and remap and they seem very professional.

Having read a few posts on here and PH it seems some love them and some hate them.

what's the latest consensus???

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter

Clearly, should you decide to go ahead with a DPF removal and ECU delete, then that is your choice. Remember though, altering the vehicle in this way, will render it illegal for use on the public road in accordance with current UK and EU law. In short, doing it will effectively invalidate your vehicle insurance. You'll never find an insurance company that will cover you because if you declare it, they'll turn you down, so by not declaring a DPF removal and ECU delete, you'd effectively be lying by stating the vehicle hasn't been modified.

I note from reading Angel Tuning's website, that you have to sign an authorisation for them to remove the DPF. Perhaps someone could enlighten us all as to why

You need to understand the consequences of DPF removal, and yes, boring I know, but there are environmental issues. Also, when you come to sell the vehicle, are you prepared to put it back to factory condition, DPF intact, ECU delete reversed etc? Or are you going to just pass the buck and let someone else buy a vehicle which they could end up having to spend a lot of money on if the MOT laws are actually tightened enough to discover whether or not the DPF can has been gutted? There's just an incey wincey moral issue there.

Imagine also, if you have an accident, insurance assessors these days are becoming increasingly switched on to this and if they can come up with any excuse for an insurer not to pay out, they will. Oh and if the police are involved, every aspect of the vehicle would be looked at mechanically anyway and should after forensic examination the vehicle is found to have been altered in such a way which circumvents the law, you'll have some explaining to do.

I'm not taking the moral high ground here and I know it's a slightly different issue, but look what is happening to VW at the moment concerning emission defeat software. Sooner or later, all of those diesel owners who have resorted to doing what you are contemplating, will get caught out. I am aware that some diesel owners have already been caught out and their vehicles have failed the MOT and it has cost them a lot of money to return their vehicle back to stock condition. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Here endeth the sermon lol

Frupi's excellent post says it all.

frupi said:

I note from reading Angel Tuning's website, that you have to sign an authorisation for them to remove the DPF. Perhaps someone could enlighten us all as to why

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I'd expect any commercial company removing an OEM DPF would require a letter from the customer acknowledging they understand it's illegal to use a vehicle so modified on the public highway and indemnifying the organisation against any costs or claims arising as a result of doing so.

IMO this loophole needs to be closed. What's needed is a change in the law to make it unlawful to remove an OEM fitted DPF from any vehicle currently registered with DVLA.

As has already been mentioned, in the light of the VW scandal, it would not surprise me to see an increase in VOSA spot checks and more aggressive enforcement of the existing rules.

Had not even thought of the legalities of it and it makes a lot of sense from that point of view to leave it in place.

How many miles are people getting out of their DPF?

There is only one way to get rid of a DPF,get rid of the car.

500Silvio said:

How many miles are people getting out of their DPF?

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From what I understand, it depends ..............

I understand that if you do sufficient mileage and have a blast up the dual carriageway every now and again, a DPF will last the life of the car.

A case in point .......... I was chatting to our local independent garage owner about these DPFs and he told me of a chap locally who bought a diesel car, but he only ever drives to the shops etc. Consequently, his warning light keeps coming on telling him that his DPF needs changing. This, he has done twice so far.

It was explained to him that he shouldn't have bought a diesel car in the first place because it's totally unsuitable for his use even though it's "economical".

He has since swapped to a petrol car.

Regards,
Mick.

Mick F said:

I understand that if you do sufficient mileage and have a blast up the dual carriageway every now and again, a DPF will last the life of the car.

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With older vehicles, this will become a self-fulfilling prophesy; the cost of replacing a DPF on a 10+yr old car will likely exceed its value.

jrkitching said:

With older vehicles, this will become a self-fulfilling prophesy; the cost of replacing a DPF on a 10+yr old car will likely exceed its value.

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Blimey, I know Fiat depreciate but not that much. A quick search for a Fiat 1.9 DPF shows prices around £200.
They are not a wear-out item. with correct maintence (right type of engine oil for example) and normal driving they should not need replacing.

Robert G8RPI

g8rpi said:

A quick search for a Fiat 1.9 DPF shows prices around £200.

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That's encouraging; some of the websites I've seen recently have been talking about replacement costs well into four figures.
£200 is not so different to the cost of a cat replacement on a petrol car.

frupi said:

Remember though, altering the vehicle in this way, will render it illegal for use on the public road in accordance with current UK and EU law.

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Same applies to EGR blanking, which it looks like what VAG have done. The "defeat device" is on Euro4 engines so it not Ad-Blue (selective CAT) related. Therefore the most obvious thing is that the "cheat" is closing the EGR (more or totally) went it does not detect a test in progress.

Robert G8RPI.

Is there any point getting a free flowing exhaust if the DPF is in place. Been told by exhaust shop that a back on is not really needed as the DPF will cancel most noise???

Thinking of an exhaust + remap and KEEPING the DPF.

Opinions?

500Silvio said:

Had not even thought of the legalities of it and it makes a lot of sense from that point of view to leave it in place.

How many miles are people getting out of their DPF?

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As others have eluded, providing the car is driven as it was intended, i.e. in such a fashion that the vehicle exhaust system gets hot enough through extended journeys to initiate a regeneration and burn off soot, the DPF theoretically, should last the lifetime of the car. It will though over time fill with ash to the point where it may require replacement or it can be professionally cleaned. Bottom line is though, and again, as has already been mentioned, there are still too many people buying a vehicle completely unsuitable for their daily drive/needs, just like the elderly neighbour of mine running around in a 59 plate French diesel car that he mostly just nips the couple of miles into town. But we all have choices and I made my own knowing what I was getting myself into.

As far as my own car, the Saab 1.9 is concerned, I could easily source a good aftermarket DPF for less that £250, so actually not the horror story some have endured either through being totally hoodwinked by unscrupulous vendors extracting as much money out of folk as possible, or just a general lack of knowledge about where to source a replacement part for a much lower price.

I still find it irritating that there are diesel owners out there who think they have the right to just drive around having removed their DPF's and EGR's and deleted their functions from the vehicle ECU and then brag about it on public forums. Whether they like it or not, they're screwing everyone, from the health of the general public and planet Earth, to the taxman (well, I can almost forgive the latter one lol! ) But seriously, it miffs me that I'm paying the VED that I am and then someone who almost always knowingly breaks the law by removing or causing the removal of something they shouldn't, more than likely belching out far more rubbish than me, is then getting away with not paying their fair share of tax. It hurts even more to know that technically, these people aren't insured because they've either lied their backsides off to their insurers or failed to mention a material fact. Think about that when they knock someone off their bike, or fails to look twice coming out of a junction and creates the ensuing carnage/havoc that comes with it all. Someone has to pay for all of that.

So, will the vendors who offer these services put your car back to its original state FOC after the car has failed the MOT? Ahh, now where's that disclaimer the client signed...... Perhaps though, we shouldn't be too judgemental about them, after all, I'm guessing they're just exploiting loopholes that EU and Government lawyers didn't quite get right when concocting the various Acts associated with this mess. At the end of the day, it's money for old rope.

As the old saying goes, 'A fool and his money are easily parted'.

500Silvio said:

Is there any point getting a free flowing exhaust if the DPF is in place. Been told by exhaust shop that a back on is not really needed as the DPF will cancel most noise???

Thinking of an exhaust + remap and KEEPING the DPF.

Opinions?

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If you make the decision to muck about with the exhaust, don't forget to tell your insurer. Many insurers don't like remapped cars or cars that are significantly altered from stock, though there are specialist insurers who will offer you a policy. Yes, yes, I can already hear the people in the background screaming 'don't tell your insurer!' Well I told my insurer about the 'mods' I'd done to my own car and it added just 10 quid to my premium. Never quite been able to work out the folk who spend thousands on a car and yet are too tight to pay the right premium, refuse to have the car serviced or seemingly don't have enough dosh to put fuel in the tank.......

I have found that at my ripe age most insurers don't care about exhausts and remap ( OEM options on a Merc ) just admin fee, which is BS as it just takes them two key strokes but it is their game, so we play by their rules.

As far as the freer flowing exhaust after DPF any opinions?

frupi said:

Whether they like it or not, they're screwing everyone, from the health of the general public and planet Earth, to the taxman (well, I can almost forgive the latter one lol! )

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Screwing the tax man and those poor terrorism sponsoring oil companies/ countries is what hypermilers do daily

It doesn't matter if you spend less on fuel, the tax man gets his hands on that money sooner or later anyway.

500Silvio said:

As far as the freer flowing exhaust after DPF any opinions?

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I'd probably remove everything after the DPF, turbos tend to quieten exhausts on their own, then it passes a CAT and DPF, I can't imagine there's much sound energy left? My TDI had a huge almost meter long muffler, but I presume that was more to do with keeping it unclogged from soot than the need for sound baffling. On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd want a noisier diesel?

UFI said:

On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd want a noisier diesel?

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Well they can sound quite nice (maybe I'm biased)




To be honest it's got a custom stainless steel exhaust and it is a little too loud but it's an on going project.

And I know some will jump at the dirty diesel thing but for a diy build it's remarkably clean (given that it's very old pre electronic technology. That's deliberate as it's used for African overland trips where I don't think you'd last long in a Euro 6 add blue diesel)