Technical 2014 500c S 1.2 (not good) vibrations

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Technical 2014 500c S 1.2 (not good) vibrations

Today, I've had my final response letter from FCA Automotive Services admitting in black and white that the vibration is present in the car 'but cannot help that this is a design feature of the vehicle and therefore a characteristic.' And they can't do anything about it as they've 'discovered that there is no way of removing the vibration.'

So, it's my fault. I shouldn't have bought a Fiat 500C knowing that it would have a vibration. It was clearly listed in the spec table at the back of the brochure and it also glowingly describes that 'the vibrations through the steering will make every journey an experience.' Well, I don't remember that bit, do you?

No point looking for any more solutions (and big thanks for all your time in suggesting them), Fiat has said it is a design feature and they're not going to do anything about it. :bang:

So it's now with the financial ombudsman and we'll see what comes of that, just sorely disappointed by the whole attitude which seems to be 'wear the customer down.' :-(
 
Today, I've had my final response letter from FCA Automotive Services admitting in black and white that the vibration is present in the car 'but cannot help that this is a design feature of the vehicle and therefore a characteristic.' And they can't do anything about it as they've 'discovered that there is no way of removing the vibration.'

So, it's my fault. I shouldn't have bought a Fiat 500C knowing that it would have a vibration. It was clearly listed in the spec table at the back of the brochure and it also glowingly describes that 'the vibrations through the steering will make every journey an experience.' Well, I don't remember that bit, do you?

No point looking for any more solutions (and big thanks for all your time in suggesting them), Fiat has said it is a design feature and they're not going to do anything about it. :bang:

So it's now with the financial ombudsman and we'll see what comes of that, just sorely disappointed by the whole attitude which seems to be 'wear the customer down.' :-(

Sorry to hear that Piggly. Did they deign to tell you just what this 'characteristic' is caused by? A "a design feature of the vehicle and therefore a characteristic" seems like a convenient catch-all excuse unless they can name the component/s at fault.
 
Sorry to hear that Piggly. Did they deign to tell you just what this 'characteristic' is caused by? A "a design feature of the vehicle and therefore a characteristic" seems like a convenient catch-all excuse unless they can name the component/s at fault.

Yes that's my take on it as well. They don't know and can't be ars** to figure it out.
It is feasible that the convertible would act differently to the normal 500, some sort of resonance due to the structure? but they're not really a full convertible so I wouldn't think there would be much if any difference in structural rigidity.

My money would still be on drive shaft(s).

I'm sure it's a tricky one to pin down though. My other car (Mercedes G Wagen) is notorious for drive train vibration to the extent owners have spent many thousands and hundreds of hours to finally give up and sell it.
Someone with the right knowledge and technical equipment would figure it out I'm sure but who that would be I wouldn't know.

I appreciate your frustration and potential financial loss but life's too short sometimes!
 
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Sorry to hear that Piggly. Did they deign to tell you just what this 'characteristic' is caused by? A "a design feature of the vehicle and therefore a characteristic" seems like a convenient catch-all excuse unless they can name the component/s at fault.
Nope, as you say a convenient excuse for something they can't be bothered to fix.
 
Yes that's my take on it as well. They don't know and can't be ars** to figure it out.
It is feasible that the convertible would act differently to the normal 500, some sort of resonance due to the structure? but they're not really a full convertible so I wouldn't think there would be much if any difference in structural rigidity.

My money would still be on drive shaft(s).

I'm sure it's a tricky one to pin down though. My other car (Mercedes G Wagen) is notorious for drive train vibration to the extent owners have spent many thousands and hundreds of hours to finally give up and sell it.
Someone with the right knowledge and technical equipment would figure it out I'm sure but who that would be I wouldn't know.

I appreciate your frustration and potential financial loss but life's too short sometimes!

Thanks for comments too. I have wondered about drive shafts but as it doesn't seem to vary that much with speed, I think it's more likely to be a combination of an over-rigid structure compared to hatch (a solicitor petrolhead friend was shocked at how hard it felt when he tried it) and possibly premature wear. I'm thinking bushes as it could be some kind of ripple or resonance effect from bumps. Don't know...

Yes, someone would be able to sort it out (as I'm sure they have with your G Wagen), but at 9 months old and 7k miles or so, it wouldn't be reasonable to expect the owner to carry out design engineering work or live with a complete annoyance.

I do also agree that life's too short and would normally cut my losses or live with it. The only reason I'm going to continue pursuing this is because (from my experience of now trying 5 different 500Cs), it's definitely not present (or perceivable) when its new, it develops over time and gets worse as the miles go on. And now, according to Fiat it's a design feature that isn't listed in any brochure I can find!

So anyone test driving a nice smooth one today at their nearest Fiat dealer would be potentially disappointed when they reach 7-8k miles, especially if they are any kind of car enthusiast. On the basis of Fiat's letter, every 500C will get the vibration at some stage!

Without sounding funny about this too, I suspect that many, if not the majority, of 500C owners are much younger than me and may not have my driving experience and mechanical sympathy - I don't mean Fiat Forum members!, but the general buying public. I'm not being arrogant at all or class myself as a great driver, btw, but I've been driving for 30+ years and have owned, driven, fixed (and even help prepare for racing) all sorts and do know a little of what's what. :)

My other principle is why on earth should any car buyer (talking all makers here) be penalised in some way for a failing or design issue that the manufacturer is not prepared to fix?

It wouldn't be acceptable if a customer bought a new TV that always lost sound after 37 minutes of being powered up and after engineers had tested it, it turned out that it isn't actually suffering a manufacturing fault, but a wrong component had been specified. There would be uproar if the buyer was told to live with it or buy another one when it had been provided with a warranty. So why should car manufacturers selling £16k products treat their customers any differently to a TV maker selling £500 items?!

I don't think I can change the world, but in today's supposedly consumer-led society, maybe something does have to change.

I'm also not going to bankrupt myself over this, but equally I'm not going to be steamrollered into submission.

Anyway, rant over. Thanks again for the comments RussH, Cheers,
 
Well put, couldn't agree more with your comments. I've been stunned in the past with what some drivers will accept.

These things have a way of taking away any enjoyment and bein a constant irritant, I've sold cars for less:)

Yesterday I had a conversation with a very pleasant lady who works for Amazon. My Kindle Fire HDX has a very slight blue shape on the screen, only really visible on a black screen.

Today a brand new Kindle arrived to replace my 360 day old one. That's customer service(y)

Oh and fortunately my G Wagen doesn't suffer from the dreaded drive train vibration, I think it's a lottery though as to which ones do.

Good luck, I'm almost tempted to take a 500C for a test drive, my wife wants one.
 
Thanks again RussH, we should be getting Amazon service from the car industry. They should collectively (and it does seem like they're pretty much all as bad as each other from reports I've read) get their fingers out.

I use a Mac. My last one was two years old and the motherboard and video card failed. Even though it was out of warranty, the components were replaced free of charge, no quibbles. It appears there was a design issue that caused them to fail under certain circumstances. Great service, just as you've had from Amazon - and it builds customer loyalty. It's much easier for them to sell a product to you or me as repeat customers if we're happy than if we've had a bad (or know of someone else's bad) experience.

I can't see any of the major car markers just replacing an engine when the car had gone out of warranty. Different costs and expectations perhaps, I know, but the car customer would be on their own.

Pleased that your G Wagen is fine, that's very good news. I've always had a soft spot for them.

Go for it with a test drive. If it's a new one it will be absolutely fine. If your dealer has a used one (any model it seems based on my experience), with 6k+ miles, see if you can feel it :)
 
Hi, yes it's me. I had been keeping quiet until something concrete had happened. I decided to try and escalate things by getting the media involved and The Guardian picked it up and ran with it. It was all resolved amicably with Fiat at the start of the month, but I guess the paper has been holding out until space was available.

I'm very happy with the resolution and I'm looking forward to getting the Abarth any time soon. I've cancelled my case with the Financial Ombudsman and obviously not taking it any further.

My moan now is with the car industry and how we're treated. With self-combusting Zafiras' it took people getting together through Facebook to get Vauxhall to act and I see now that they are blaming the fires on shoddy repairs. Looking at anecdotal stories, it seems that at least a few of these people are still getting their cars serviced in the dealer network, so it shouldn't be bodge-up repairs in every case.

Our VW required DSG gearbox overhaul at <27k miles, but it took some persuasion to get the dealer to believe there was a problem with it. There was and apparently the bill would have been in the thousands if it wasn't a warranty repair. Again, that was described as a characteristic.

There seems to be a need for additional consumer protection (for the motorist anyway) where a problem is not a clear warranty defect, but caused somehow through design or the implications of design changes. It is that chasm I fell into and I'm sure I'm not going to be the last.

Anyway, it's a happy ending as far as I'm concerned. Or rather I will be completely happy when I collect the Abarth. :)
 
Great result!

And fiat have stepped up to the mark after a little "encouragement".

I completely agree with the sentiment that car manufacturers seem to operate to their own (shoddy) standards that someone selling 20 quid kettles wouldn't be allowed to get away with!
 
Hello, pigglycat,

I have been reading through this thread with great interest and have to add that our 2009 1.4 500C drives as smoothly now at 41,000 miles as it did when we first bought it at 24,000 miles, 3 years ago.

I must also add that my wife and me are both serious motorists in our 60s and have many years of experience - me as a professional driver (PCV) and retired DSA ADI (Grade 6) and also as a former mechanic and MOT Nominated Tester (Class IV, V and VII). I am only stating all this so that you know we are discerning motorists and I, especially, would be acutely aware of anything about the vehicle which may cause concern, or not be up to expectations.

The only criticisms I have with our 500C is the hard, fidgety ride and a harsh-sounding engine, compared with our other car - a 2010, Mk3.5 Mazda MX-5, which is superbly smooth in all respects.

I am truly sorry, pigglycat, that you had such a huge and worrying issue with your 500C. No one should have to suffer so much over a malfunctioning car. I really hope that you will be delighted with the Abarth replacement and that it gives you the pleasure that was sadly lacking in the previous model.

Kevin.
 
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Hi Kevin, thanks for reply. I can tell from your message that you would most definitely be able to feel the vibration if it were present in yours and I'm very pleased that it isn't! In the 2012 model that I drove, it was very noticeable and anyone with any mechanical awareness would have spotted it.

I'm sure it will ultimately prove to have been a component spec change somewhere down the line - we have been theorising about suspension bushes as it's definitely some kind of accelerated wear issue, being not present at new but more so at a higher mileage.

Just pleased that Fiat have been able to sort it out in the end, albeit under pressure.

I'm really looking forward to the Abarth, although not sure I'll see it this week now. Never mind, I'm sure it will be worth it when I do get the keys!

Thanks again and a happy Christmas!
 
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