Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

[jrkitching]

Re: 500 duo logic repair Australia how to get contribution

Hi I have issue with 500 (2010 model) in Sydney Australia with duo logic problem well reported in forums. Slips out of drive into neutral, does not engage 1st gear etc) Does anybody have advice as to how to get Fiat Australia to provide "out of warranty" contribution to fix. Any help appreciated as this seems to be more than fair wear and tear problem.

Firstly, check the basics. Make sure there's enough fluid in the system, and get any fault codes read using Examiner or MES. It might be possible to do a software reset that restores functionality, but if there's an underlying hardware problem, it'll be a short term fix only.

I'd be surprised (astounded, more like) if you were able to get a contribution from Fiat on a 6 yr old car, but you won't know for sure unless you ask.

I'm moving the last two posts into the main thread to keep everything tidy.

 

[ahmett]

Re: 500 duo logic repair Australia how to get contribution

Hi I have issue with 500 (2010 model) in Sydney Australia with duo logic problem well reported in forums. Slips out of drive into neutral, does not engage 1st gear etc) Does anybody have advice as to how to get Fiat Australia to provide "out of warranty" contribution to fix. Any help appreciated as this seems to be more than fair wear and tear problem.

sounds like a hydraulic problem. as jrkitching said check the fluid. if low, top up. if it is leaking then you have a big problem and it will eventually fail.
so either be prepared to spend about 2000 USD, or get rid of the car.

this is from someone who has gone through exactly what you have and paid 1300 EUR to have the system replaced. and yes i spoke to fiat and got a 10% discount so paid about 1150 EUR to fix it at the main dealer.
all previous attempts to fix the problem just temporarily fixed it and eventually broke over and over again over the course of 2 years until the whole system was changed.
since the whole system was changed it is working normally.

i have a 2010 1.4

 

[Dshear]

Hi Fiat family, this is my very first topic to start. I'm from Melbourne, Australia. I bought my 500c 3 months ago (used) at 50,000 kms mileage.

The Duologic transmission started playing up, won't take my gears n stay in neutral. Guess what! Gears stopped responding on my birthday (yesterday) on the most busiest street of Melbourne

So I did take it to the Fiat dealer n this is what they send me in an email
.........................................
Following is the information from Zagame Automotive Group, Richmond VIC 3121 Australia (Fiat Dealer)

"We checked and investigated to find the gear selector actuator failed and leaked out lost pressure etc.
To remove and replace the gear selector actuator is $5990.00 supplied and fitted.

Please note the part is already at trade price."
.........................................

I'm not sure if the dealer is telling me the truth.

Ok so it's a BLOODY EXPENSIVE PART!!!! it's like half of what I paid for this car.

I love my car more than anything (except for my MacBook).

Here in Australian there are not much fiat users hence its very very very difficult to find someone like a local mechanic to fix this.

Guys I need HELP!!!! your FIAT BROTHER from AUSTRALIA needs HELP!

I have seen some other members having similar problems but I didn't quite understand the solution to it.

Please provide me with some kind of solution where I don't have to spend AU $6000.

Any response are appreciated.

Thanks a ton in advance.
Love from Australia. [/QUOTE


Hi
I have similar problem in Australia with Dualogic and was interested to know if Fiat Australia Customer Care were prepared to come to the party regarding remedy.?
Reply appreciated

 

[liav24]

Holy S! why so expensive? this is the highest price for a dualogic system i've ever seen. I payed almost half of this.
The only way to fix the problem is to replace the WHOLE dualogic system, i would suggest you to get rid of the car.

 

[jrkitching]

Holy S! why so expensive? this is the highest price for a dualogic system i've ever seen. I payed almost half of this.

That's the problem with owning any car outside of its main market. Fiat Australia can charge pretty much what they like; I'm guessing that importing something of this size & weight from Europe isn't going to be either cheap or easy, and there won't be many local independent garages with experience in fixing this sort of thing.

The problem for Dshear is that the $6000 has already been lost. The decision is probably whether to lose it by paying to have the car repaired, or lose it by selling it as it is. On a 6yr old car, the most you're likely to get from Fiat is an offer of the dualogic unit for trade price - which is what that $6000 apparently represents.

 

[Broker1]

Hi all, It had to happen and I was just gritting my teeth waiting for it. The 1.2 Sport which my wife adores threw itself into "N" today as she came to a stop at a junction. She turned the car off and on and it worked fine.


I believe this is the start of issues and I would like to keep on top of them and so with this in mind what are the steps to take. The car is a 2008 and so I am on my own. Are there any prelim checks I should do or should I just get it into a garage right now.


From what I have read, garages are a bit "hit or miss" with dealing with this issue and some start re resetting software and this ends up in a big bill later when this doesn't fix it. Should I just get the whole thing replaced now? and if so is it the whole gearbox or just the actuator (please be gentle I am an engine novice)


If I need to use a garage any suggestions for someone who knows what they are doing? I live in South Lincs 20 mile above Peterborough.


Thanks in advance (I await the posts about sell it/should have bought a manual but the wife loves it and I will not sell it with a fault)

 

[DavyP]

Re: Dualogic Issues

Welcome to the club! I wouldn't say I was an expert on the Dreaded Dualogic, but I've had 10 years + using them.
In order for the box to change into Neutral I would say that the actuator would have to have been commanded by the ECU to do so, as I don't think it can just slip out of gear.
If the command wasn't caused by a manual operation from the driver I would think it should be held in the Dualogic ECU memory. This can be checked by using the 'Examiner' or , perhaps someone can do it with a Multiscan.
I think your wife did the right thing by switching it off and on, just hope that it was just a hiccup.
If you look at fcconnect.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/Fiat-Dualogic-M20-Training-Manual.pdf There is an extremely useful manual on how it works and how to work it .
I've had some useful tips from NZ how to work on it without any technical wizardry too.Things that Fiat agents didn't know.
Best of luck, When they work correctly they are great BUT they can be rubbish

 

[ahmett]

Re: Dualogic Issues

Hi all, It had to happen and I was just gritting my teeth waiting for it. The 1.2 Sport which my wife adores threw itself into "N" today as she came to a stop at a junction. She turned the car off and on and it worked fine.


I believe this is the start of issues and I would like to keep on top of them and so with this in mind what are the steps to take. The car is a 2008 and so I am on my own. Are there any prelim checks I should do or should I just get it into a garage right now.


From what I have read, garages are a bit "hit or miss" with dealing with this issue and some start re resetting software and this ends up in a big bill later when this doesn't fix it. Should I just get the whole thing replaced now? and if so is it the whole gearbox or just the actuator (please be gentle I am an engine novice)


If I need to use a garage any suggestions for someone who knows what they are doing? I live in South Lincs 20 mile above Peterborough.


Thanks in advance (I await the posts about sell it/should have bought a manual but the wife loves it and I will not sell it with a fault)

if it starts to fail the only way it will properly be fixed is to replace the whole hydraulic actuator unit, the part costing about 1000 + GBP.

Oh and read this! - > This is the forum's dualogic failure thread for the Fiat 500. So add any questions here.
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/425006-one-only-dualogic-failure-thread-11.html

 

[ahmett]

Re: Dualogic Issues

Hi all, It had to happen and I was just gritting my teeth waiting for it. The 1.2 Sport which my wife adores threw itself into "N" today as she came to a stop at a junction. She turned the car off and on and it worked fine.


I believe this is the start of issues and I would like to keep on top of them and so with this in mind what are the steps to take. The car is a 2008 and so I am on my own. Are there any prelim checks I should do or should I just get it into a garage right now.


From what I have read, garages are a bit "hit or miss" with dealing with this issue and some start re resetting software and this ends up in a big bill later when this doesn't fix it. Should I just get the whole thing replaced now? and if so is it the whole gearbox or just the actuator (please be gentle I am an engine novice)


If I need to use a garage any suggestions for someone who knows what they are doing? I live in South Lincs 20 mile above Peterborough.


Thanks in advance (I await the posts about sell it/should have bought a manual but the wife loves it and I will not sell it with a fault)

regarding prelim checks, check the oil level of the Dualogic system, and check for any leaks. If you see a leak and the oil level is low, you are in trouble, get the system changed as it will fail eventually.

if it only went into netural once without any flashing gearbox warning light may not be the end of the world if oil levels are ok, meaning you still can drive it for now. If it starts happening often, then you can be more concerned.

 

[jrkitching]

Hi all, It had to happen and I was just gritting my teeth waiting for it. The 1.2 Sport which my wife adores threw itself into "N" today as she came to a stop at a junction. She turned the car off and on and it worked fine.

Sorry to hear this - condolences.

If I were faced with this situation and wanted to keep the car, I'd give serious thought to changing (not just checking) the hydraulic fluid at this point. It might just prolong the life of the actuator unit.

Given the frequency at which these units seem to fail, I'm surprised noone is offering a quality reconditioning service; I'd have thought that stripping the unit down, cleaning everything thoroughly and replacing all the seals would go a long way to restoring lasting functionality.

 

[Broker1]

Thanks everyone for the prompt reply and kind advice. I think the first thing is to check the level of the oil. I am not that great with car mechanics and so is there a guide to show me how to do this? (I have no idea where to even look on the car!)


If I do have to take this to a garage my fear is that they t have a clue what to do.....that's why I asked for any recommendations in my area.

 

[ahmett]

Sorry to hear this - condolences.

If I were faced with this situation and wanted to keep the car, I'd give serious thought to changing the hydraulic fluid at this point. It might just prolong the life of the actuator unit.

Given the frequency at which these units seem to fail, I'm surprised noone is offering a quality reconditioning service; I'd have thought that stripping the unit down, cleaning everything thoroughly and replacing all the seals would go a long way to restoring lasting functionality.

jrkitching i tried this and it made it last 2 years longer, but still broke in the end. i still recommend just getting a new unit, unless you 'recondition' it and plan on selling it quick smart = )

 

[ahmett]

Thanks everyone for the prompt reply and kind advice. I think the first thing is to check the level of the oil. I am not that great with car mechanics and so is there a guide to show me how to do this? (I have no idea where to even look on the car!)


If I do have to take this to a garage my fear is that they t have a clue what to do.....that's why I asked for any recommendations in my area.

you can check the oil but the car has to be on a stand. just look under the bumper when it is in the air and you can see through the undertray the dualogic reservoir min/max with the red fluid in it.

 

[Broker1]

Thanks, that makes sense, I will check tonite and report back. In terms of replacement what should I be talking to garages about? Just changing the actuator to resolve the issue?

 

[jrkitching]

Thanks, that makes sense, I will check tonite and report back. In terms of replacement what should I be talking to garages about? Just changing the actuator to resolve the issue?

Checking the level is something I'd expect any half-competent garage to be able to do, but if you go beyond that, I'd want the work done by someone with specific experience of dualogics; the garage will likely need either MES or examiner to check and reprogram the system once they've changed the actuator.

A franchised dealer will be expensive but at least you'll have some sort of warranty; a Fiat-oriented indie will be cheaper and may even do a better job.

Asking what diagnostics they will use to check and reprogram the system should sort out the serious workshops from the cowboys.

If topping up or changing the fluid does provide a short term fix, I'd get some quotes for replacing the actuator, then you'll at least know what you're facing if the worst subsequently happens. Judging from recent posts, be glad you're not living in Australia.

Anyone got any recommendations for a suitable garage in S Lincolnshire?

 

[Noetic Concordance]

Thanks, that makes sense, I will check tonite and report back. In terms of replacement what should I be talking to garages about? Just changing the actuator to resolve the issue?

That HUGELY depends on what the actual issue is. Can be anything from a dodgy/weak battery, gearbox sensor, brake switch (this is a common one), general wiring/electric fault (earthing harnesses etc), fluid levels / leaks, clutch, actuator or the whole transmission needing replacement.

 

[jrkitching]

That HUGELY depends on what the actual issue is. Can be anything from a dodgy/weak battery, gearbox sensor, brake switch (this is a common one), general wiring/electric fault (earthing harnesses etc), fluid levels / leaks, clutch, actuator or the whole transmission needing replacement.

Which is why the OP needs to take it to someone with the knowledge and diagnostic tools to work out what's wrong. It's not the OP's job to diagnose the problem.

At this stage, there might be a simple and relatively cheap permanent fix, or it might need complete actuator replacement. You can't work this out without having the car in front of you.

I'll keep my fingers crossed it's something simple.

 

[Noetic Concordance]

It's not the OP's job to diagnose the problem.

Indeed not but OP was already starting to talk about talking to garages about changing actuators and whatnot. I was merely trying to point out that he needs them to find out what's wrong first.

 

[Broker1]

Thanks for the discussion and the help. To be honest the reason I was asking about what to say to the garage is that from experience garages will either go "all in" and state major work is needed or go for an easy, temp fix which will see me returning time and again and shelling out ££££


As an example, my co car (VX Insignia) had a steering vibration/wobble at exactly 75mph and it went into the main dealers several times for balancing/wheel alignment/tyre pressures/tyre rotations etc. In the end and with a bit of research on my part (and the help of t'internet) I found out a common cause was the bushes. Armed with my printout I went to the dealer for the 6th or 7th visit, showed them my findings and after a sharp intake of breath and a few "Nah, cant be that" "Never heard of that before" they agreed to do the work and Hey Presto......all fixed.


Really didn't want to have to go through that pain again.

 

[Noetic Concordance]

Get error codes read and see what they say first- brake switch is often a cause for this issue but look for CHECK TRANSMISSION error flagging up mid-drive, it jumping out of gear without the foot on the brake, errors / gear unavailable messages on startup etc.