Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

[Jordanirutter]

Hi guys new to the forum. I really need someone’s help just bought my fiat grande punto 1.4 8v dualogic private. Have had for 2 weeks and has been perfect but today I nipped to the shop and it will not select auto. Just stays in manual. I’ve tried stopping and selecting auto but it just stays in manual. I have no lights on the dash and my brake lights are fine. Would really appreciate the help if anyone knows anything as I can’t find any answers for this problem on her. Cheers

 

[Yoana]

Hello everyone! I almost bought a Fiat 500 1.4 2010. Did a few test drives, everything seemed fine. Today I was at the dealership to make it official and while trying to load the car on the trailer (it wasn’t yet registered in my country) the gearbox went to neutral and couldn’t’ switch to gear or rear (both manual and automatic). After a minute it went back to normal but I called off the deal. Now I’m very confused, I’m a young driver and been wanting this specific model for a few years. Should I give up and maybe try another model as I require an automatic transmission?

 

[varesecrazy]

Hello everyone! Should I give up and maybe try another model as I require an automatic transmission?

Buy a torque converter automatic

Not a manual that has a robot doing the work

The robotised systems save fuel.. but can cost vast amounts to repair when tired

 

[jrkitching]

Buy a torque converter automatic

:yeahthat:

It sounds like you have dodged a bullet there. The problems associated with repairing these transmissions are quite well known, and many folks choose to trade their cars in whilst the faults are still intermitttent and the warning lights can still be reset. This makes buying a used dualogic particularly risky.

If you own a dualogic Fiat, you are just one warning light away from a potential £2000+ repair bill. There is no known test you can carry out to ensure this will not happen the next time you drive the car.

Distinguish between what you want, and what you need. I can understand why you'd want a 500; they're desirable and attractive cars. But if you need an automatic, I'd advise you not to buy one. A possible exception may be if you are buying new and only planning to keep it for 3-4 years.

 

[Yoana]

Buy a torque converter automatic

Not a manual that has a robot doing the work

The robotised systems save fuel.. but can cost vast amounts to repair when tired

Thank you for the suggestion! Can you recommend a small car with a torque converter automatic as I know basically nothing about cars?

 

[Ermn]

hello everyone,

First of all, I read many topics on this page. Thank you for sharing your experiences and support.

i own 0.9 twinair selespeed vehicle.( Lancia Ypsilon 2013, 64.000 Km)

For the past 1 week, the gear has moved from 5th gear to n position while driving, and has been giving the error of having the gear controlled.

When I checked with obd it displayed 3 errors.

P2917, P2916 and P060A

I have read the solution for P2917, P2916 error codes on the forum. I'll open and clean the cap on the clutch bottom point.

I could not find much information about the P060A error code. i am thinking of measuring the battery voltage. Does anyone have experience in this matter?

Thanks for your help.

 

[varesecrazy]

hello everyone,

First of all, I read many topics on this page. Thank you for sharing your experiences and support.

When I checked with obd it displayed 3 errors.

P2917, P2916 and P060A

I have read the solution for P2917, P2916 error codes on the forum. I'll open and clean the cap on the clutch bottom point.

I could not find much information about the P060A error code. i am thinking of measuring the battery voltage. Does anyone have experience in this matter?

Thanks for your help.

Quote from within this thread:

*Originally Posted by*bencey*

Look around the back of the unit for a black plastic cover with magneti marelli written on it. it's held in with three torx 20 screws (if I remember correctly).
Remove those screws, And peer inside the unit. It should be nice and dry, no oil or dirt and definitely no water.

Spot on, thank you. After much searching and spending over £200 on Multiecuscan, I finally got around to taking this cover off! There was a fair bit of oil and dirt inside which was stopping the piston sliding back and forth freely.

For anyone else having the following symptoms, I would suggest checking inside this cover for dirt / oil / water.

Symptoms: Gears unavailable message when stationary and stuck in neutral, randomly getting stuck in gear under braking with no throttle and then gears unavailable message and stuck in neutral when stopped. This mostly happened from a cold start and when the car had been running for less than 30 minutes, dependent on outside temperature.

DTCs: P060A, P2917, P2916, P1742 in various combinations.

Cause: There is a small aluminium piston in a bore behind the black cover at the back of the actuator (near the bulkhead). It needs to be able to move backwards and forwards freely as this motion is the same as moving the gearstick in a manual car from side to side to align to 1st or 2nd, 3rd or 4th, 5th or reverse. If there is dirt in the bore, movement is not free resulting in incorrect location of the piston and hence the failure.

Solution: I flushed it out with a can of brake cleaner and then regreased the pins before closing it up again. I also removed the solenoid from the side of the bore and cleaned that, if you do this be careful not to lose the little spring from inside.

Considerations: My car is almost 5 years old and started having this problem a couple of months ago. My wife has the same car and had the same issue just after she purchased it at just over 3 years old and 13,000 miles. The actuator on my wife's car was replaced under warranty, but it probably just needed cleaning. I don't believe a drop of oil in the bore would cause an issue, but there was a lot of aluminium sludge caused by wear from the back and forth movement. It is a simple job to do and so for me, I will just check / clean / regrease as required once a year.

Hope this helps others with dualogic issues.



DEC 2020 -

How old is your battery?

Bad connections to the cars rear lights can also give problems.. as the gearbox uses the brake lights for information

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Thank you for the suggestion! Can you recommend a small car with a torque converter automatic as I know basically nothing about cars?

There are very few new ones these days, as they’re very inefficient on fuel and everyone and rules and refs are all about efficiency and lower emissions now.

 

[jrkitching]

There are very few new ones these days

If someone asked me today about buying a new automatic small car, I'd steer them toward an EV.

If I were taking a trip back through time, one of the nicest small automatics I've ever driven was the ADO16 with the 4 speed AP transmission. This is a particularly good example.

 

[akoni]

Quote from within this thread:

*Originally Posted by*bencey*

Look around the back of the unit for a black plastic cover with magneti marelli written on it. it's held in with three torx 20 screws (if I remember correctly).
Remove those screws, And peer inside the unit. It should be nice and dry, no oil or dirt and definitely no water.

Spot on, thank you. After much searching and spending over £200 on Multiecuscan, I finally got around to taking this cover off! There was a fair bit of oil and dirt inside which was stopping the piston sliding back and forth freely.

For anyone else having the following symptoms, I would suggest checking inside this cover for dirt / oil / water.

Symptoms: Gears unavailable message when stationary and stuck in neutral, randomly getting stuck in gear under braking with no throttle and then gears unavailable message and stuck in neutral when stopped. This mostly happened from a cold start and when the car had been running for less than 30 minutes, dependent on outside temperature.

DTCs: P060A, P2917, P2916, P1742 in various combinations.

Cause: There is a small aluminium piston in a bore behind the black cover at the back of the actuator (near the bulkhead). It needs to be able to move backwards and forwards freely as this motion is the same as moving the gearstick in a manual car from side to side to align to 1st or 2nd, 3rd or 4th, 5th or reverse. If there is dirt in the bore, movement is not free resulting in incorrect location of the piston and hence the failure.

Solution: I flushed it out with a can of brake cleaner and then regreased the pins before closing it up again. I also removed the solenoid from the side of the bore and cleaned that, if you do this be careful not to lose the little spring from inside.

Considerations: My car is almost 5 years old and started having this problem a couple of months ago. My wife has the same car and had the same issue just after she purchased it at just over 3 years old and 13,000 miles. The actuator on my wife's car was replaced under warranty, but it probably just needed cleaning. I don't believe a drop of oil in the bore would cause an issue, but there was a lot of aluminium sludge caused by wear from the back and forth movement. It is a simple job to do and so for me, I will just check / clean / regrease as required once a year.

Hope this helps others with dualogic issues.

hi @*bencey*

that black cover at the back, do you need to remove the whole robot dualogic assemby to take off the back cover and clean the rod? are can you clean it by crawling underneath the engine? any tips how to do it properly?

my panda is also on 6 years now at 55k mileage and have gears going to Neutral from 1 or 2nd gear in the middle of the traffic

 

[varesecrazy]

bencey

 

[Parso111]

Do the attched screenshot values seem within spec?
Im getting code p1772-1d ocaasional and also moving off from a cold start is becoming an issue stalling 4 times in a row recently.

Ive renewed the high pressure pump and Fuel pressure regulator as they were leaking and that has improved things slightly.

 

[FlameGrilledBob]

Hi All,

Do we know what happened to burrowsdeano? I feel like I've read an epic novel but the last page is missing

And yep, GP 1.4 8v owner here, with a gearbox that jumps into N when braking any harder than "very gently".

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi All,

Do we know what happened to burrowsdeano? I feel like I've read an epic novel but the last page is missing

And yep, GP 1.4 8v owner here, with a gearbox that jumps into N when braking any harder than "very gently".

Have you cleaned the ground points for the rear lights thoroughly?

 

[Lucyj]

Hi
I’m new here.
5 years ago I purchased my 2014 dualogic fiat500 and have loved driving/owning it…..It had 7k miles on the clock and I purchased it for the princely sum of £8k from a now closed fiat dealership in Bristol.
Fast forward to about 6 weeks ago when it put itself into N when I tried to put it into R. I turned of the engine and started it up again and it was fine. Drove home and noticed the odometer was flashing and my blue and me was not working. Looked on here disconnected the battery for 30 mins and the blue and me worked again. Next time I took it out the odometer started flashing again and the blue and me went again. It was due a service the next day so I asked my garage about the blue and me they checked said they could see there was a fault but were unable to fix it and advised me to take it to my local fiat garage.
Booked it in for the fiat garage in Chipping sodbury (but had to wait 3 weeks) In those 3 weeks the gear thing happened twice more but only when it was wet.
So today I finally got it looked at in the fiat garage and they have advised I need a new convergence unit and some work done on the gear box that they would price up for me and call me back. I nearly had an heart attack when they called back its £589.00 for the blue and me and £2200 for the gear box just to replace a part on it with no guarantee that it will fix it as they may find more issues when they take it apart so it might cost me even more…. I’m gutted my car has only done 20,000 miles around town with hardly any motorway driving.
I have had look thought this thread and there are so many other good ideas that might fix this for me but I’m no way able to try them myself……
Can anyone recommend something I can do I don’t seem able to find an independent fiat garage in Bristol. Is it worth me trying a different fiat approved garage?
Any advice will be very gratefully received.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi
I’m new here.
5 years ago I purchased my 2014 dualogic fiat500 and have loved driving/owning it…..It had 7k miles on the clock
Fast forward to about 6 weeks ago when it put itself into N when I tried to put it into R. I turned of the engine and started it up again and it was fine.
So today I finally got it looked at in the fiat garage and they have advised I need a new convergence unit and some work done on the gear box that they would price up for me and call me back. I nearly had an heart attack when they called back its £589.00 for the blue and me and £2200 for the gear box just to replace a part on it with no guarantee that it will fix it as they may find more issues when they take it apart so it might cost me even more…. I’m gutted my car has only done 20,000 miles around town with hardly any motorway driving.
I have had look thought this thread and there are so many other good ideas that might fix this for me but I’m no way able to try them myself……
Can anyone recommend something I can do I don’t seem able to find an independent fiat garage in Bristol. Is it worth me trying a different fiat approved garage?
Any advice will be very gratefully received.

Hi and welcome

As you have read there are many scenarios with this..

Personally I would find one of the Blue and Me failure threads that typecastboy has assisted with

Do the most cost effective repair to that part of the cars systems..

Then see IF the gearbox still causes issues.. it may well be o.k.

 

[typecastboy]

Three links for you - The fella on eBay that repairs and replaces all the oil seals on the duologic which is the failure for £225. You would need someone to take it out, send it off and put it back in when repaired but way way cheaper

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-500...earbox-Repair-12-Months-Warranty/392924825252

The other two are videos on my youtube channel showing how you take out and replace the blue and me unit. Units can be bought for under £100.

https://youtu.be/xwmbdRuTWOU

https://youtu.be/-iQsZxAZXio

 

[jrkitching]

Hi

Hi Lucy, and welcome to the forum.

Reading between the lines, I'm thinking what could have happened here started with the Blue&Me convergence unit failing. This is very common and being reported here with increasing frequency as the fleet gets older. When the B&M unit fails, it often does so in such a way as to cause a continuous drain on the battery. This in turn causes fluctuations in the voltage of all the rest of the electrical and electronic components on the car, as well as significantly reducing the battery's life. At this point, all sorts of stuff starts randomly misbehaving and you'll get a shedload of warnings and errors. If this is what's happened, you just need to stop the Blue&Me power drain and sort out the battery.

You need to start by getting the Blue&Me problem fixed; until you've dealt with the power fluctucations this fault causes there's no point even speculating what else may or may not be wrong. Unless you're going to get a new convergence unit (and you already know the cost of that), you have two options: source a secondhand one (probably about £100 for the part) or if you don't need the Blue&Me functionality, disconnect it - this will stop the power drain. It's located behind a rear trim panel; it shouldn't cost a lot to have an independent garage remove the panel and pull off the connector. After you've done this, you'll need someone with Fiat-specific software to tell the car's electronics that the Blue&Me unit is no longer present; this means either finding a member with a copy of MES, finding an independent garage which has the right software to do this, or paying a main dealer (probably about £100 if I know main dealer pricing). This procedure is called proxy alignment and will fix the flashing mileage issue.

Once this has been done, then pay attention to the battery; it may well have been permanently damaged as a result of the Blue&Me fault. If you've not changed it since you bought the car, then I'd suggest you just change it now anyway; you'll need a proper Stop/Start capable battery, probably about £125 fitted by an independent; double that at a franchised dealer.

When you've done all that, it's just possible the transmission errors will magically go away. If so, give thanks to whatever omnipotent being you believe in and buy a lottery ticket.

If the transmission errors persist after dealing with Blue&Me, changing the battery and resetting the fault codes, you're in the hard place. The best course of action is probably to find an independent specialist who can clear the codes, get it working temoprarily, and promptly trade the car in.

Continuing to run an intermittently failing dualogic when you're dependent on the trade to keep it running is probably a losing strategy. Fixing it properly will likely involve replacing some expensive assemblies and is likely to cost you more than your car is worth.

 

[Briangsmith]

Hi all
Purchased 2017 Fiat 500 with Duologic 3 years ago with 5000 miles on clock.
Now done 12500 miles and have recently experienced the Car dropping out of gear either when I am doing 20/30 or 50mph or stationary
Took the car to ANCASTER Fiat in Shepperton. They diagnosed the fault as the sELespeed unit beginning to fail!
Contacted FIAT direct and they quoted that ANCASTER Fiat is no longer a REGISTERED dealer so they would not consider any claim/or equivalent.
Got an email from ANCASTER today saying get your FIAT serviced by us, with no mention of them NOT being a REGISTERED FIAT dealership.
Either ANCASTER or FIAT should do the honourable thing and stand by the product they make lots of profit from.
Shocking service by both entities.
PS the cost of fixing the problem is somewhere in the region of £2000, so beware FIAT owners that you are dealing with Companies that will go to any lengths to avoid fixing your car’s faults at there own cost

 

[jrkitching]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

I'm sorry to hear about your problem; you'll see from this thread that you're by no means the first. By the way, thanks very much for searching and posting here; most folks don't bother and then I have to move the post across.

As your car's now out of warranty; it would likely have made little if any difference if the servicing had been done by a franchised dealer. Fiat's willingness to make goodwill payments seems somewhat random, but some say that being the first owner of the car is one of the things they take into consideration.

12500 miles means you've been particularly unlucky; generally the problems start after 40-50k.

What to do?

Generally there are no quick or cheap fixes or workarounds; £2000 is in the expected ballpark for replacing the selespeed unit. Some might suggest checking/topping up the fluid level, which sometimes works for a short while, but if it's not correct, something's leaking, and that's only kicking the can a short way down the road.

Personally, if it works OK most of the time and there are no warning lights on, I'd chop it in at the earliest opportunity. It should still have reasonable value left in it and it may be about to turn into a money pit. Living with the potential of an unexpected £2k+ repair bill at any time is one of the joys of dualogic ownership. These are cars best bought new and traded away before the warranty runs out.