Moderator's Note:

This is a spin-off from an off-topic discussion of the Euro6 issues; I think it's sufficiently interesting to warrant its own thread.

So, the 1.2 500 is now seven years old and essentially unchanged since launch; most would agree it has charm and character by the bucketload, but is it still competitive?

You decide.

Officina red said:

And when it is moving from say 10 mph upto 70 mph (don't really go any faster than that)
it is a great engine pulls well sounds good, you couldn't ask for much more from a 1.2 engine.

Click to expand...

Try a 1.2 Swift; that's what a modern 1.2 is capable of.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

zanes said:

Try a 1.2 Swift; that's what a modern 1.2 is capable of.

Click to expand...

Never driven one so i will take your word for it, but and no offence to Swift owners for me it lacks that X factor that says buy me.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

zanes said:

Try a 1.2 Swift; that's what a modern 1.2 is capable of.

Click to expand...

yes ridiculous the 1.2 engine of the swift develops 92 hp!!! no paltry 69.
Thats almost as much as my 1.4 100!

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Officina red said:

zanes said:

Try a 1.2 Swift; that's what a modern 1.2 is capable of.

Click to expand...

Never driven one so i will take your word for it, but and no offence to Swift owners for me it lacks that X factor that says buy me.

Click to expand...

Yes, there's no denying they are very different cars.

Like anything in life, you makes your choices.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

ahmett said:

yes ridiculous the 1.2 engine of the swift develops 92 hp!!! no paltry 69.
Thats almost as much as my 1.4 100!

Click to expand...

zanes said:

Try a 1.2 Swift; that's what a modern 1.2 is capable of.

Click to expand...

Character is far more important than sheer outright power.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

puntofan01 said:

Character is far more important than sheer outright power.

Click to expand...

give me a break the Fiat 500 1.2 engine has no character whatsoever with its 8v instead of 16v make up. It may be enough for the car with decent low down torque, but i definitely would not call it exciting. The 1.4 has more 'excitement', but it could easily have 120 hp instead of 100 if Fiat actually bothered tuning it.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

zanes said:

Yes, there's no denying they are very different cars.

Like anything in life, you makes your choices.

Click to expand...

Could not agree any more

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

ahmett said:

give me a break the Fiat 500 1.2 engine has no character whatsoever with its 8v instead of 16v make up. It may be enough for the car with decent low down torque, but i definitely would not call it exciting. The 1.4 has more 'excitement', but it could easily have 120 hp instead of 100 if Fiat actually bothered tuning it.

Click to expand...

My old 60 bhp Punto mk2 had plenty of character thanks.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

ahmett said:

give me a break the Fiat 500 1.2 engine has no character whatsoever with its 8v instead of 16v make up. It may be enough for the car with decent low down torque, but i definitely would not call it exciting. The 1.4 has more 'excitement', but it could easily have 120 hp instead of 100 if Fiat actually bothered tuning it.

Click to expand...

Woah ahmett! Let's not get carried away here.

The 1.2 8v is/has been a great little motor in the 500. I think it's got plenty of character myself, although clearly these ones with the throttle issue sound absolutely terrible and downright dangerous to drive (interesting post by JTD_Liam in that respect).

Not saying it's hot hatch material by any means of course! But it is a really great little motor in my opinion, which is why it is so frustrating and sad for Fiat fans that this whole issue has blown up. It has left a sour taste in my mouth, that's for sure.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Super Uwe said:

Woah ahmett! Let's not get carried away here.

The 1.2 8v is/has been a great little motor in the 500. I think it's got plenty of character myself, although clearly these ones with the throttle issue sound absolutely terrible and downright dangerous to drive (interesting post by JTD_Liam in that respect).

Not saying it's hot hatch material by any means of course! But it is a really great little motor in my opinion, which is why it is so frustrating and sad for Fiat fans that this whole issue has blown up. It has left a sour taste in my mouth, that's for sure.

Click to expand...

what i am saying is the engine can be much better than it is. fiat havent invested in R & D in this engine for far too long, unlike Suzuki etc who manage to get much more power from the same engine size. And Fiat have managed to make things even worse with their Euro 6. I see the 1.2 being discontinued eventually.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

ahmett said:

give me a break the Fiat 500 1.2 engine has no character whatsoever with its 8v instead of 16v make up. It may be enough for the car with decent low down torque, but i definitely would not call it exciting. The 1.4 has more 'excitement', but it could easily have 120 hp instead of 100 if Fiat actually bothered tuning it.

Click to expand...

I found the 1.4 to be too front end heavy. It always wanted to go straight on when pushing hard into a bend, which meant the extra power was only useful on the straights.
Myself and a friend ragged a 1.2 and a 1.4 against each other one day along the lanes where I live. The 1.4 would pull away on the straights the 1.2 was all over the back off it through the bends due to the better balance. I know which one gave me the bigger smile, Size isn't everything.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

muttleysdad said:

I found the 1.4 to be too front end heavy. It always wanted to go straight on when pushing hard into a bend, which meant the extra power was only useful on the straights.
Myself and a friend ragged a 1.2 and a 1.4 against each other one day along the lanes where I live. The 1.4 would pull away on the straights the 1.2 was all over the back off it through the bends due to the better balance. I know which one gave me the bigger smile, Size isn't everything.

Click to expand...

you make a good point i generally dislike all Front wheel drive cars as they are all too front end heavy to some extent. i still think overall the 1.4 is quite a bit faster than the 1.2 if driven hard, not to mention it has much better brakes. I think its about 70 kgs more than the 1.2? So thats essentially 1 passenger = )

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

A lot of talk about the swift, but the fiat 1.2 is only half a second off the Suzuki's 0-60. Top speed and mpg isn't far off either. The fiat 1.2 might be old but it's still competitive.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

ahmett said:

you make a good point i generally dislike all Front wheel drive cars as they are all too front end heavy to some extent. i still think overall the 1.4 is quite a bit faster than the 1.2 if driven hard, not to mention it has much better brakes. I think its about 70 kgs more than the 1.2? So thats essentially 1 passenger = )

Click to expand...

No offence, but if you dislike front wheel drive cars, why did you buy a 500?! If there was something I didn't like about a car, then I wouldn't buy that car!

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

puntofan01 said:

No offence, but if you dislike front wheel drive cars, why did you buy a 500?! If there was something I didn't like about a car, then I wouldn't buy that car!

Click to expand...

my next car i plan to be rear wheel drive. its not so easy to buy nice cars cheap in greece and certainly there were no new rear wheel drive cars that were less than 20,000 euros new!

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

ahmett said:

my next car i plan to be rear wheel drive. its not so easy to buy nice cars cheap in greece and certainly there were no new rear wheel drive cars that were less than 20,000 euros new!

Click to expand...

Why didn't you just buy an old 3-Series then, lol?

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

puntofan01 said:

Why didn't you just buy an old 3-Series then, lol?

Click to expand...

greece does not have a good used car market. i plan to get a 1 series eventually either from UK or Greece.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

ahmett said:

my next car i plan to be rear wheel drive. its not so easy to buy nice cars cheap in greece and certainly there were no new rear wheel drive cars that were less than 20,000 euros new!

Click to expand...

Renault Twingo ?

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Andyb80 said:

A lot of talk about the swift, but the fiat 1.2 is only half a second off the Suzuki's 0-60. Top speed and mpg isn't far off either. The fiat 1.2 might be old but it's still competitive.

Click to expand...

Having had both in the same household at the same time, the swift has much more acceleration than the 500. I was amazed at the difference. There's also the fact it's (much) cheaper, (much) better equipped, more reliable, better engineered, etc. etc.

I've never been <that> impressed by the FIRE 1.2. It's nice enough and pushes the 500 along well enough, but when a few years back people on here were singing its praises for being a lovely revvy engine and what not I was left scratching my head. It's certainly nothing to write home about when you've tried pretty much all the competition (as we did three years ago, so they've probably moved on even more now).

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

zanes said:

Having had both in the same household at the same time, the swift has much more acceleration than the 500. I was amazed at the difference. There's also the fact it's (much) cheaper, (much) better equipped, more reliable, better engineered, etc. etc.

I've never been <that> impressed by the FIRE 1.2. It's nice enough and pushes the 500 along well enough, but when a few years back people on here were singing its praises for being a lovely revvy engine and what not I was left scratching my head. It's certainly nothing to write home about when you've tried pretty much all the competition (as we did three years ago, so they've probably moved on even more now).

Click to expand...

It seems to me that the Europeans have completely stopped bothering with NA engines.

But as you said the 1.0 vw engine has 72 hp, while swift 92 on the 1.2. Both considerably better than fiats 'broken' 1.2 offering .


It's a shame if these engines die though, because I prefer them to turbo engines . If I had to buy a turbo I'd just buy a diesel