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Old 16-04-2015   #31
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

Starting the car is the last thing you do.

First, you get in and any passengers too.
You confirm that the handbrake is on and then you make sure you're in neutral.
Then, you make sure you are correctly seated and connect your seatbelt and confirm all your passengers are correctly seated and belted too.
Make sure the doors are closed properly.

Only then do you insert the key and start the engine.

Mick.
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Old 17-04-2015   #32
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

I'm reminded of the Alfa 164 handbook - quite the best in this regard (items in quotes are exact wording, others are paraphrased:

- Walk around the vehicle and check for broken lights
- "Check under the vehicle for fluid leaks or other anomalies"
- "Sit in the driver's seat and check that you can reach the controls"
- "Check the horn proper operation"
- Turn the key to AVV and release as soon as the engine starts
- "Do not tread on the accelerator when starting the engine"
- "Do not demand top performances until the engine is warmed up"

I loved the priority given to the testing of the horn. I thought it was all a wonderful joke - until I visited Rome. There, I learned about "top performances" and "horn proper operation". Especially in places where the road has no lane markings.

The same handbook section included a few line drawings showing how to clip the seat belts neatly to the pillars using the provided clips, to prevent the unfastened buckle from knocking against the trim. The fact that a clip was fitted on the driver's side told you all you needed to know about superstitious Italian behaviour ("why would you not have confidence in your driving?" as someone from that part of the world once explained to me...)

Happily, things have moved on since the 80's - mainly thanks to the NCAP programme. It's also worth knowing that early (American) large airbag systems were designed to protect the occupants even if seat belts were not worn - this is NOT the case for the European designs and seat belts MUST be worn to allow the smaller airbag(s) to work properly - otherwise, the airbag(s) may cause additional injuries due to the body being in the wrong place. Leaning on the door trim etc. is also no longer allowed!

-Alex
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Old 17-04-2015   #33
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

Quote Originally Posted by Mick F View Post
Starting the car is the last thing you do.

First, you get in and any passengers too.
You confirm that the handbrake is on and then you make sure you're in neutral.
Then, you make sure you are correctly seated and connect your seatbelt and confirm all your passengers are correctly seated and belted too.
Make sure the doors are closed properly.

Only then do you insert the key and start the engine.

Mick.
These days by the time I'd done all that I'd have forgotten where I was going!
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Old 17-04-2015   #34
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Starting a Twin Air

Just made a test on my TA:
It starts independent from clutch position of no gear in.
If gear in, it only starts with clutch pressed....
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Old 17-04-2015   #35
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

Quote Originally Posted by larslarsen View Post
Just made a test on my TA:
It starts independent from clutch position of no gear in.
If gear in, it only starts with clutch pressed....
nice so thats a good safety feature actually!
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Old 17-04-2015   #36
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

Please remember .......... if you are testing the starting of your TA ...........

I found that I had the No Start Situation only after the car had been standing unused for a couple of days. Once started and driven, it would start irrespective of the clutch being depressed or not.

Why there should be a difference, I don't know, and I don't know why you should ever need to depress the clutch to start. I understand that some cars are built that you MUST depress the clutch, but our TA seems to vary.

Regards,
Mick.
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Old 17-04-2015   #37
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

Quote Originally Posted by Mick F View Post
Starting the car is the last thing you do.

First, you get in and any passengers too.
You confirm that the handbrake is on and then you make sure you're in neutral.
Then, you make sure you are correctly seated and connect your seatbelt and confirm all your passengers are correctly seated and belted too.
Make sure the doors are closed properly.

Only then do you insert the key and start the engine.
Nice checklist, but you forgot to press the clutch pedal!
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Old 17-04-2015   #38
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Re: Starting a Twin Air


Oops, I should have said that!
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Old 18-04-2015   #39
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

Quote Originally Posted by larslarsen View Post
If gear in, it only starts with clutch pressed....
UFI will crank in gear. It's a useful way to move a car that won't start out of a dangerous position (although at ~900kg you could generally just push it).
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Old 18-04-2015   #40
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

Just a thought: Could the starting problem be related to the way the engine was stopped? Maybe it makes a difference if you let S&S stop the engine end then turn the key to STOP or if you stop the engine yourself by turning the key to STOP. Maybe S&S gets confused if do the first and then try to start the engine without pressing the clutch pedal, since normally a start after a stop performed by S&S is always with the clutch pedal pressed.
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Old 18-04-2015   #41
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

Quote Originally Posted by AGH1965 View Post
Just a thought: Could the starting problem be related to the way the engine was stopped? Maybe it makes a difference if you let S&S stop the engine end then turn the key to STOP or if you stop the engine yourself by turning the key to STOP. Maybe S&S gets confused if do the first and then try to start the engine without pressing the clutch pedal, since normally a start after a stop performed by S&S is always with the clutch pedal pressed.
Certainly something to add to the mix there AGH, mine has behaved for a week now but with so many different sensors on start up ,something must be happening somewhere ,S&S could affect certain vehicles if the battery is starting to fail i guess !!
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Old 19-04-2015   #42
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

Quote Originally Posted by AGH1965 View Post
Just a thought: Could the starting problem be related to the way the engine was stopped?
That could very well be the reason. Thanks.

I wonder if turning the key off co-insides with a S/S initiation and the system gets confused?
I wonder too, that I've never noticed a problem other than at home when the car has been standing.

Nowt wrong with the battery BTW. S/S works perfectly and the battery is only five months old.

Anyway, I'm going to give it another week or two, and then start her ONLY with the clutch up. I'll take note of where and when it has previously been switched off and see if I can duplicate the anomaly. I'll keep a diary of it.

If the car remains 100% reliably starting by clutch depressing, I'll revert to non-depressing as from Monday 4th May and use my diary to note starts and stops and any problems.

Remember, this is by turning the key DIRECTLY to AVV and not pausing at MAR.

Interesting eh?
Mick.
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Old 19-04-2015   #43
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

Mine did not start again for the first time in 10 days Argggh! all procedures were followed ,this time i left her 20 hours ,btw the battery was mentioned for others not ours ,i have now tried ,starting in sport mode/without, radio on/off,climate control on/off all together,looks like no difference ,the time left now could be a coincidence or not ? does the computer get confused,i had no stop/start engine shut down before i parked in the drive yesterday so cannot be that?the saga goes on to be continued .....
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Old 19-04-2015   #44
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

Off topic, but couldn't resist:

Blondes would LOVE to learn to park like this! (I'm blonde, so pun intended )

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Old 19-04-2015   #45
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Re: Starting a Twin Air

Quote Originally Posted by Melanabb View Post
Off topic, but couldn't resist:

Blondes would LOVE to learn to park like this! (I'm blonde, so pun intended )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iswNoOWgiw
Love it..,
my neighbour has driven ( and raced) all kinds of vehicles ( even Chauffered US presidents.. )

BUT - the only successful trailer reversing was like this, with the horse doing the steering ; - )
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