JTD_Liam said:

That's a right joke! Why is it that dealers these days seem to only be able to go on what their diagnostics say?! Does nobody looking at the car have a brain to think 'what could that be'. It's no good keep sending a customer away just because the computer shows no errors, because clearly there IS an error. Just madness.

I would've originally said temperature sensor, but it seems to do it in quite a variation of temperatures so that might not be it. I'd have thought perhaps a MAF or Oxygen sensor playing up, making the ECU deliver the wrong amount of fuel, hence the stalling, but I'm not a technician, and to those that are, I'd have thought it was hardly rocket science :-/

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I agree with everything you say a car this new 3000 miles only should not behaving this way ,someone must have an idea ,changing parts as guessing is no good but surely in testing development for this new engine this must of happened somewhere along the line ,i`m currently experimenting with starting in normal mode ,as while in sports mode the fault has been occurring on start up !!

auditt said:

Our 1.2 has done similar twice in the last week.Took 4 attempts to start the other day and 2 attempts today except the engine was warm today.When the engine starts the tickover is very low and lumpy but then picks up to normal without touching throttle pedal.Never done it before.

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Try changing the spark plugs. The 1.2 OEM plugs are cheap rubbish; you can fit an almost-equivalent Ir replacement (NGK DCPR7EIX) for not a great deal of money and the consensus of those who have (myself included) is that engine starting and cold running are much improved. The Ir plugs run with a smaller gap, which also benefits the coil packs.

Better still, Ir plugs will last you at least 40,000 miles; the OEM ones are good for nothing but the scrap bin after 10k.

This advice won't help suffering TA owners; the TA is fitted with Platinum plugs as standard.

Updated again
Booked in again for next Friday,i tried an experiment for a few days starting the car in normal mode not leaving it in sport mode and all seemed well for three days ,but yesterday it would not start and on the sixth attempt i had to blip the accelerator pedal to start her . When i finished work it was the same its really annoying ,i also rang Fiat customer services who listened and wrote everything down and gave me a case number ,lets hope the dealership in association with Fiat can sort this out despite no faults showing up on their computer it must be something,i have now 5 videos showing the car cannot be started for over two minutes unless you touch the accelerator ,never had this with any previous new Fiat.:bang::bang:

JTD_Liam said:

That's a right joke! Why is it that dealers these days seem to only be able to go on what their diagnostics say?! Does nobody looking at the car have a brain to think 'what could that be'. It's no good keep sending a customer away just because the computer shows no errors, because clearly there IS an error. Just madness.

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Well said.

Modern cars may have a plethora of electronic wizardry to manage the engine and diagnose faults, but the cylinders don't see any of that. If they've got a spark, a combustible fuel/air mixture, and adequate compression, they'll fire; if they don't fire, one or more of those three things must be absent.

Diagnosis starts with working out which of the three is missing.

jrkitching said:

Well said.

Modern cars may have a plethora of electronic wizardry to manage the engine and diagnose faults, but the cylinders don't see any of that. If they've got a spark, a combustible fuel/air mixture, and adequate compression, they'll fire; if they don't fire, one or more of those three things must be absent.

Diagnosis starts with working out which of the three is missing.

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Thus older mechanics would take a look inside new ones plug in to a computer er no faults im sorry , the reason i keep updating is not for personnel reason, it is hopefully to help any future twin air 105 owner who also experiences this issue and hopefully soon i will have a fix that may help future owners to research. fingers crossed .

jrkitching said:

Try changing the spark plugs. The 1.2 OEM plugs are cheap rubbish; you can fit an almost-equivalent Ir replacement (NGK DCPR7EIX) for not a great deal of money and the consensus of those who have (myself included) is that engine starting and cold running are much improved. The Ir plugs run with a smaller gap, which also benefits the coil packs.

Better still, Ir plugs will last you at least 40,000 miles; the OEM ones are good for nothing but the scrap bin after 10k.

This advice won't help suffering TA owners; the TA is fitted with Platinum plugs as standard.

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10k? my engine is already starting to labor down low in the revs and cold running after 8 k haha = )

rkt2003 said:

Thus older mechanics would take a look inside new ones plug in to a computer er no faults im sorry , the reason i keep updating is not for personnel reason, it is hopefully to help any future twin air 105 owner who also experiences this issue and hopefully soon i will have a fix that may help future owners to research. fingers crossed .

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good luck and do let us know how it goes. do they try and start the engine and have the same problem at the dealer?

ahmett said:

good luck and do let us know how it goes. do they try and start the engine and have the same problem at the dealer?

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No so far they have not replicated the start i get ,so hopefully Friday 10th they will .

rkt2003 said:

No so far they have not replicated the start i get ,so hopefully Friday 10th they will .

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Make sure they do. I believe this is cruicial in solving the problem.

ahmett said:

Make sure they do. I believe this is cruicial in solving the problem.

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Thing is i leave it overnight with them and dont see what they do as im at work 6am-630 pm i have plenty of video proof to show anyone from Fiat hq.

rkt2003 said:

Thing is i leave it overnight with them and dont see what they do as im at work 6am-630 pm i have plenty of video proof to show anyone from Fiat hq.

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the best thing to do is leave it overnight and don't touch the car. go there yourself and start the car physically yourself with them watching so they see the problem in person. that should get the dealer more active and convince fiat HQ more.

fiat hq sometimes assumes its customers are liars = ), so if both you and the dealer specify the problem and the dealer cannot seem to solve the problem, that will probably cause Fiat to send one of their own engineers to have a look. Don't forget dealer techs are not officially Fiat employees, they are employees of the dealer.

ahmett said:

the best thing to do is leave it overnight and don't touch the car. go there yourself and start the car physically yourself with them watching so they see the problem in person. that should get the dealer more active and convince fiat HQ more.

fiat hq sometimes assumes its customers are liars = ), so if both you and the dealer specify the problem, that will probably cause Fiat to send one of their own engineers to have a look. Don't forget dealer techs are not officially Fiat employees.

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Here is yesterday mornings video i have proof so i wont worry to much.got to go out now to football speak later guys.
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=fd69816060f8d808&id=FD69816060F8D808%212275&ithint=video,mp4&authkey=!ABMnUy2mF_bNN24

rkt2003 said:

No so far they have not replicated the start i get ,so hopefully Friday 10th they will .

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It's Friday 10th. Any news?

AGH1965 said:

It's Friday 10th. Any news?

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Not so good ,despite 5 videos as evidence showing the fault ,they could not replicate it :bang:,next step to leave the car for a week ,but no courtesy car given while they have it :bang: i will make a call tomorrow to the dealer i bought it from 131 miles away and hopefully sort something out .

Updated or is it?
Well after discussions over this past week its back to as you were ,i`m now having another dealership to look at the car weds night overnight stay for it ,pick her back up Thursday but it is like starting back at day one !!,i said why does it have to show a fault code when not starting ,if no fault codes are stored when it fails to start? i have my videos to show them which i will of starting the car up as per manual and the Fiat technician . Surely someone somewhere in the Fiat tech will have seen this fault before either on a Panda,or other Multi air unit i guess without the need for a fault code ,but who i am lol .onwards and upwards
P.s it failed to start twice in the last week.

rkt2003 said:

Updated or is it?
Well after discussions over this past week its back to as you were ,i`m now having another dealership to look at the car weds night overnight stay for it ,pick her back up Thursday but it is like starting back at day one !!,i said why does it have to show a fault code when not starting ,if no fault codes are stored when it fails to start? i have my videos to show them which i will of starting the car up as per manual and the Fiat technician . Surely someone somewhere in the Fiat tech will have seen this fault before either on a Panda,or other Multi air unit i guess without the need for a fault code ,but who i am lol .onwards and upwards
P.s it failed to start twice in the last week.

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Did you ever get anywhere with this??? Mine went for its first service last week i explained the problem to them, when my wife picked the car up they told her start/stop doesn't work in the cold.... They are absolutely useless. Its still doing it.

mixwell said:

Did you ever get anywhere with this??? Mine went for its first service last week i explained the problem to them, when my wife picked the car up they told her start/stop doesn't work in the cold.... They are absolutely useless. Its still doing it.

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Weak batteries tend to show themselves in the cold and as start stop will not operate if the battery has insufficient charge it is leading me to think the battery is shot.

mixwell said:

Did you ever get anywhere with this??? Mine went for its first service last week i explained the problem to them, when my wife picked the car up they told her start/stop doesn't work in the cold.... They are absolutely useless. Its still doing it.

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No it never got sorted despite four dealer attempts i was convinced it was a temperature sensor as it only happened as soon as it was late autumn/winter i.e when it was below say 3c ,but they just kept saying the computer sees no faults it was very frustrating .:bang:

Pathaleon said:

Weak batteries tend to show themselves in the cold and as start stop will not operate if the battery has insufficient charge it is leading me to think the battery is shot.

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Mine was a new car so it wasn`t that but yes you are right about older batteries and stop /start.

rkt2003 said:

No it never got sorted despite four dealer attempts i was convinced it was a temperature sensor as it only happened as soon as it was late autumn/winter i.e when it was below say 3c ,but they just kept saying the computer sees no faults it was very frustrating .:bang:

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The computer would not show a fault if it thought it was hotter than it actually was but was within spec but real time analysis would have given a clue if all data was shown and compared to real life say or factory readings