It may be a small leak in the fuel system which allows the pressure to drop over time and it needs the extra time to build up again with the fuel pump
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Technical Cold starts
- Thread starter rkt2003
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Technical Cold starts
The symptom I'm finding, is that the starter motor doesn't even turn. It doesn't click, it doesn't even dim the lights, the car is absolutely normal except that the key turns to Start and ............ nothing.
Turn back off, turn to MAR, wait a second or two, and try again.
Perfect.
Since finding this "problem", I've continued to follow the above method and it works 100% of the time. When trying occasionally to go straight to Start, it fails 100% of the time.
However, if the car has only been left a few hours, it starts going when I go straight to Start ............ even when cold.
It's as if the system "hibernates" over maybe 24hrs.
Would the symptoms I've described be caused by a fuel leak?
Thanks,
Mick.
Turn back off, turn to MAR, wait a second or two, and try again.
Perfect.
Since finding this "problem", I've continued to follow the above method and it works 100% of the time. When trying occasionally to go straight to Start, it fails 100% of the time.
However, if the car has only been left a few hours, it starts going when I go straight to Start ............ even when cold.
It's as if the system "hibernates" over maybe 24hrs.
Would the symptoms I've described be caused by a fuel leak?
Thanks,
Mick.
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Probably not
,didn't read the whole thread For you to get nothing it sounds more like the imobiliser. But again, why that would happen after an extended off period and not when its warm is odd/unlikely.I had a car that would lose sync with the immobiliser chip every now and again but not like this
OP
OP
Sounds like it could be the starter motor this use to happen on older cars the only way i guess is to get any codes read (there may or may not be some )certainly ain`t right .
Starter motor?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a starter motor just a DC motor with a solenoid-controlled pre-engaged cogwheel to turn the flywheel?
I'm saying that I turn the key directly to Start and nothing happens. Nothing, not a jot. Nothing. It's as if I hadn't turned the key from MAR.
Can't be sure of that actually. I didn't note the warning light sequence, but you get the picture. Maybe I should take note of exactly what happens.
I'll be out in the 500TA tomorrow late morning. First time it will have been used since getting home noon on Sunday. That will be three whole days ie 72hrs since the engine last ran.
I have a PC laptop and I have all the OBD connectors including the ELM one, so all I need is to pay £40 or so for the MultiecuScan software to read any error codes. I may do this soon. I was waiting to see if I needed the software before buying it.
I'll try starting the car in accordance with Fiat's instructions .............. Depress the clutch, in neutral, no accelerator, and go straight to Start.
I'll let you know how we get on tomorrow afternoon.
Regards to all,
Mick.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a starter motor just a DC motor with a solenoid-controlled pre-engaged cogwheel to turn the flywheel?
I'm saying that I turn the key directly to Start and nothing happens. Nothing, not a jot. Nothing. It's as if I hadn't turned the key from MAR.
Can't be sure of that actually. I didn't note the warning light sequence, but you get the picture. Maybe I should take note of exactly what happens.
I'll be out in the 500TA tomorrow late morning. First time it will have been used since getting home noon on Sunday. That will be three whole days ie 72hrs since the engine last ran.
I have a PC laptop and I have all the OBD connectors including the ELM one, so all I need is to pay £40 or so for the MultiecuScan software to read any error codes. I may do this soon. I was waiting to see if I needed the software before buying it.
I'll try starting the car in accordance with Fiat's instructions .............. Depress the clutch, in neutral, no accelerator, and go straight to Start.
I'll let you know how we get on tomorrow afternoon.
Regards to all,
Mick.
OP
OP
You could do exactly what i am doing ,which is recording via mobile phone on video my cold starting problem ,then at least when i see the Fiat Technician next time i can show him exactly what i mean ,if you have a friendly reliable mechanic you could also show him your video ,just a thought,
Well, that was interesting!
I started 500TA this morning at 9am. Last running early PM Sunday. Nearly 72hrs of just sitting on the drive.
I started the engine in accordance with the handbook: Handbrake on, in neutral, depress clutch fully, not touching the throttle pedal, insert the key and turn directly to AVV Start, and then release.
The engine fired immediately - like it should.
I will continue to start up exactly like that each and every single time. Give it a few weeks, and if it continues to work even when left for days, that will be the end of the matter.
However, it it fails only once, there must be a fault.
We'll see, and I'll get back to this thread when I have something to report.
Thanks guys,
Mick.
I started 500TA this morning at 9am. Last running early PM Sunday. Nearly 72hrs of just sitting on the drive.
I started the engine in accordance with the handbook: Handbrake on, in neutral, depress clutch fully, not touching the throttle pedal, insert the key and turn directly to AVV Start, and then release.
The engine fired immediately - like it should.
I will continue to start up exactly like that each and every single time. Give it a few weeks, and if it continues to work even when left for days, that will be the end of the matter.
However, it it fails only once, there must be a fault.
We'll see, and I'll get back to this thread when I have something to report.
Thanks guys,
Mick.
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Can't see it.
It wants an account, and I don't have one ............ or want one.
Is there any way of making your movie public?
Thanks,
Mick
It wants an account, and I don't have one ............ or want one.
Is there any way of making your movie public?
Thanks,
Mick
OP
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Try uploading to your pc then converting to avi ,click on attachments and upload see if that works.
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12,c this time and 10 starts later i had to blip the accelerator pedal definitely not right at all. I will show them this video tomorrow 3pm.
You need to set the viewing to public not private, good luck tomorrow.
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I Knew i had missed something thanks.
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Let your warning lights go out before you start the car see if that helps
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Updated
Well it was plugged in again today to see if any faults had showed up ,but nothing at all ,i showed them my video above post ,showing 10 starts to get the car started (with accelerator pedal used on start 10,which is not how you start these modern engines) they were baffled .
We agreed if it happens more which unfortunately for me it will as its at least every other day ,they will share the video with hq and escalate,i said its not good taking 3 minutes to start the car with less than 3000 miles on less than 6 months old ,to get to work on a morning they agreed ,so watch this space i guess.
Well it was plugged in again today to see if any faults had showed up ,but nothing at all ,i showed them my video above post ,showing 10 starts to get the car started (with accelerator pedal used on start 10,which is not how you start these modern engines) they were baffled .
We agreed if it happens more which unfortunately for me it will as its at least every other day ,they will share the video with hq and escalate,i said its not good taking 3 minutes to start the car with less than 3000 miles on less than 6 months old ,to get to work on a morning they agreed ,so watch this space i guess.
Our 1.2 has done similar twice in the last week.Took 4 attempts to start the other day and 2 attempts today except the engine was warm today.When the engine starts the tickover is very low and lumpy but then picks up to normal without touching throttle pedal.Never done it before.
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Yes the tickover is low and lumpy then cuts out on mine the difference being yours picks up without the use of the throttle its annoying really.
Updated
Well it was plugged in again today to see if any faults had showed up ,but nothing at all ,i showed them my video above post ,showing 10 starts to get the car started (with accelerator pedal used on start 10,which is not how you start these modern engines) they were baffled .
We agreed if it happens more which unfortunately for me it will as its at least every other day ,they will share the video with hq and escalate,i said its not good taking 3 minutes to start the car with less than 3000 miles on less than 6 months old ,to get to work on a morning they agreed ,so watch this space i guess.
That's a right joke! Why is it that dealers these days seem to only be able to go on what their diagnostics say?! Does nobody looking at the car have a brain to think 'what could that be'. It's no good keep sending a customer away just because the computer shows no errors, because clearly there IS an error. Just madness.
I would've originally said temperature sensor, but it seems to do it in quite a variation of temperatures so that might not be it. I'd have thought perhaps a MAF or Oxygen sensor playing up, making the ECU deliver the wrong amount of fuel, hence the stalling, but I'm not a technician, and to those that are, I'd have thought it was hardly rocket science :-/
