Hi,

New member, first post, be gentle

I have searched and not found an exact answer: I'm servicing a '09 500 1.2 sport.

The rear brakes are overdue a service. I have new drums and shoes, but had big trouble getting the old drums off.

Removed the retainer/locater bolts, pulled and hit with a hammer and all sorts, but it really didn't want to come off. Eventually forced off the drum using larger bolts in the locater-bolt holes (which is correct procedure as I understand it)

The problem seems to be that the drums are so badly lipped that it won't pull over the shoes. Brute force eventually got one drum off, but it's damaged the shoes, the shoe locater pin and self-adjuster, which is really frustrating.

As the self-adjuster was damaged, had to re-assemble with the old parts and order new adjuster

There doesn't seem to be any way to retract the shoes while the drum is in place, I really don't want to repeat this on the other side.

So MY QUESTION: Is there any way to get a badly lipped drum off? Or is it just a case of brute force and fix the damage later?

Will cross-post with Panda as I understand it's the same drum (checked the rules and this seems OK?)

Smoothound said:

So MY QUESTION: Is there any way to get a badly lipped drum off? Or is it just a case of brute force and fix the damage later?

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Hello and welcome :wave:.

Pretty much that. You might want to slacken off the handbrake cable before you start, though that may not help much. I recall an interesting roadside experience when I had a brake shoe delaminate on a Clio - it had wedged very firmly between what was left of the shoe & the drum.

Fortunately drums are cheap - replacing the pair will cost you less than a tank of fuel - so if they are so badly lipped as to make drum removal difficult, just fit new ones.

Unless you're more hamfisted than most, if you get them off using a pair of threaded bolts, you're unlikely to damage anything beyond the shoes & drums - and you'll be replacing both of those anyway.

Bosch do a kit which iirc includes the adjusters and springs and everything, not that expensive

Smoothound said:

So MY QUESTION: Is there any way to get a badly lipped drum off?

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Angle grinder with a cutting disc, and cut the drum.

Cut deep (but not right through) across the whole diameter from back-plate to back-plate, and a chisel will snap it into two pieces.

Seen it done like that, but never done it myself.

Good luck.
Mick.

Thanks guys. That confirms what I thought. :bang:

I've ordered new spring kit and adjusters from brakeparts.co.uk, so should be able to rebuild the both brakes if needed.

I had though about grinding off the drum too. My only worry there is hot sparks getting onto the ABS sensor.

Shame it's all so sealed up, you just can't get in there to do anything.

The grinder would very much be a last resort.

Grind the lip down once it's off, will certainly make life easier for refitting if nothing else, or consider replacing if they're that badly worn.

just to be clear: I'm not planning on refitting the drums. I have new drums and shoes. The problem was getting the old ones off.

As the drum was so badly lipped it couldn't get past the shoes. I ended up ripping the shoes off the hub, this in turn damaged the brass end fixing of the locating pin (which was thankfully easily fixed), but far worse, bent the threaded part of the auto-adjuster rod.

As the adjuster couldn't be wound back in, I had to refit the old pads and drum. Not ideal at all, but there's no way it could be reassembled with the new parts.

I was just wanting to make sure there is no other way of getting the drum off before I do the same the other side. Petty sure the same thing will happen the other side :bang:

It's not a great design. There really should be a way to retract the shoes via an inspection hole.

Angle grinder, but use it to skim off the lip once the drum's removed. Have done this over the years on several occasions with no negative results.
If I'm going to run an economy car, I'll do whatever's necessary within the bounds of safety to make it an economy car! Why buy new drums when you can service the existing ones?

It's very much a question about how to get them off in the first place. But thanks

Good luck with the other side!
Let us know how you get on.

I wonder if heat would expand the drum enough so you don't damage too much as you rip the drum off?

Just an idea,
Mick.

You could undo the bleed nipple on the cylinder, it might release just enough pressure on the shoes.

Mick F said:

Good luck with the other side!
Let us know how you get on.

I wonder if heat would expand the drum enough so you don't damage too much as you rip the drum off?

Just an idea,
Mick.

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Thanks!! I will!

Nice idea, but it's lipped by maybe 3mm each side. So I don't think so. Also, I'd be worried about that much heat damaging the ABS sensor. It looks plastic to me.

Eklipze3k said:

You could undo the bleed nipple on the cylinder, it might release just enough pressure on the shoes.

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I see where you're coming from, but I think the auto-adjuster would stop that from having any benefit: it's sat right under the cylinder.

4a in this pic



Ideally, Fiat should have made it possible to retract the auto-adjuster by poking a screwdriver through an inspection hole. They didn't :bang:

If I remember later I will look in my Haynes and see if that gives a hint.

The problem with the Haynes is that they are usually written from the perspective of a brand new car, so likely won't even mention a wear ridge.

I've never been let down with a big hammer. Try spraying wd40 or something similar behind the drum & rotate hit the sides with the big hammer. Pull & twist, it may take a while, but as I've said never let me down & I've been working with cars for over forty years.....Best of luck.

Ah, the joys of modern enlightened brake systems where the pad / shoe materials wear the metal brake disks / drums as much as they do themselves...

Why can't we save the planet by skimming discs and drums, and relining brake shoes and clutches?

Isn't progress wonderful?

So I always though the rear drums just only used as park brake.
So the Drums in my pop is also a regular brake for stopping the car?

Would be a bit hard to tell if the pads are nearly worn out yeah?

Mila said:

So the Drums in my pop is also a regular brake for stopping the car?

Would be a bit hard to tell if the pads are nearly worn out yeah?

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Yes Mila. The rear brakes are used every time you press the brake pedal. On a small FWD car, they provide at most 10-20% of the stopping power, so they don't usually wear as quickly as the front pads.

Mila said:

Would be a bit hard to tell if the pads are nearly worn out yeah?

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It has shoes, not pads, at the rear, though they wear in much the same way.

Any mechanic worth their salt will pull at least one (and ideally both) of the drums whenever the car has a full service to check the amount of shoe wear and look for any other faults, such as a seized adjuster or a leaking hydraulic cylinder.

Most Twitfix type places will check them for free - but if you don't know what to look for (and depending on your level of paranoia), there's always a chance they'll say they need replacing before their time has truly come. If you ask them to check your rear pads on a drum braked car, you may as well hand over your wallet at the same time.

jimboy said:

I've never been let down with a big hammer. Try spraying wd40 or something similar behind the drum & rotate hit the sides with the big hammer. Pull & twist, it may take a while, but as I've said never let me down & I've been working with cars for over forty years.....Best of luck.

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Aargh! Hitting cast iron with a big hammer.... and that's before we talk about what's happening to the bearings :bang:.

Spraying WD40 near brake hydraulics.... :bang::bang:.

Brute force & WD40 are two of your car's natural predators.

The angle grinder method for splitting a seized drum is reasonable, if in extremis - much better than brute force. But IMO Fiat should have provided an access plate to enable the self adjusters to be wound back.