Technical Oil for a TA

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Technical Oil for a TA

Well our own TA (build date 20 September 2012, registered July 2013), the oil for that is definitely 5w40 acea c3. We had no issues whatsoever with rough running after its first service in August last year, indeed from what I remember, it seemed to be a little smoother and sweeter sounding after the oil change, so not sure why yours should be any different after a oil and filter change. Do you know the build date of your own car? Just ask your Fiat dealer to let you know its assignment date if you don't.

I'm assuming here you have used a Fiat franchise dealership for the service?


Thanks, yes, an approved indie that I have a good relationship with. The oil has always been contentious as the car was built in week 51 of 2013, the fiat system says use 5w when you enter the vin and I had my indie confirm this with fiat but who really knows what the car was delivered with. I also noticed today that they were quite generous with the oil and its a bit over the max mark which may not be ideal, anyways I'll see how it behaves on a cold start in the morning.
 
Thanks, yes, an approved indie that I have a good relationship with. The oil has always been contentious as the car was built in week 51 of 2013, the fiat system says use 5w when you enter the vin and I had my indie confirm this with fiat but who really knows what the car was delivered with. I also noticed today that they were quite generous with the oil and its a bit over the max mark which may not be ideal, anyways I'll see how it behaves on a cold start in the morning.

Mercky, if it was running fine before you took it in & it's running badly now, the overwhelming probability is that the cause is something they did.

The TA has been reported to be somewhat persnickety when it comes to oil specs & I can just about believe that a change from 0W30 to 5W40 might affect the valve events sufficiently to cause a noticeable change in performance. Thing is, you've no way of knowing what it was actually filled with before. It'd certainly be interesting to drain & refill with 0W30 & see if performance reverts to the way it was.

Too much oil can definitely be harmful but the question is where to draw the line? I've once seen a Ford Kent engine seriously belching smoke on the overrun due to excess oil, but that one was about 2l over the top - the owner told me they always added half a litre every time they refuelled :eek:. Personally I'd be removing the excess somehow or other if it were more than about 3mm over the max mark on the dipstick.

Another thing I'm wondering is if they updated any software on the car, but if you've had the work done by an indie, I'd say this is most unlikely.
 
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Mercky, if it was running fine before you took it in & it's running badly now, the overwhelming probability is that the cause is something they did.

The TA has been reported to be somewhat persnickety when it comes to oil specs & I can just about believe that a change from 0W30 to 5W40 might affect the valve events sufficiently to cause a noticeable change in performance. Thing is, you've no way of knowing what it was actually filled with before. It'd certainly be interesting to drain & refill with 0W30 & see if performance reverts to the way it was.

Too much oil can definitely be harmful but the question is where to draw the line? I've once seen a Ford Kent engine seriously belching smoke on the overrun due to excess oil, but that one was about 2l over the top - the owner told me they always added half a litre every time they refuelled :eek:. Personally I'd be removing the excess somehow or other if it were more than about 3mm over the max mark on the dipstick.

Another thing I'm wondering is if they updated any software on the car, but if you've had the work done by an indie, I'd say this is most unlikely.


Thanks; they checked software etc and no faults were showing and no updates due. It's very infuriating not knowing and always doubting about the oil, I'll let you know the outcome, my gut is that it came with 0W but as you say I'll never know!
 
So started up this evening after work and same problem again so back in to hospital in the morning. My guess is if they refill it with 0w it'll be fine but I'll see what they say. Not sure either if they reset the oil change flag - would this cause these problems if not reset after an oil change?
 
Not that I actually know but 5w40 just doesn't sound right for a modern engine such as the TA.
Given the low ambient temperature my guess would be it's affected the valve operation.
Was it even fully synthetic? If it's semi that would have a worse cold start situation no matter what the grade says.
 
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Not that I actually know but 5w40 just doesn't sound right for a modern engine such as the TA.
Given the low ambient temperature my guess would be it's affected the valve operation.
Was it even fully synthetic? If it's semi that would have a worse cold start situation no matter what the grade says.

Our own TA has been running perfectly fine in temperatures of minus 5 degrees C of late. 5w40 acea c3 fully synthetic oil put in it by the Fiat dealer as per the book. There shouldn't be an issue as far as I'm concerned.
 
Not that I actually know but 5w40 just doesn't sound right for a modern engine such as the TA.
Given the low ambient temperature my guess would be it's affected the valve operation.
Was it even fully synthetic? If it's semi that would have a worse cold start situation no matter what the grade says.


5w is the correct oil for pre euro 6 cars and yes it was fully synthetic!!
 
The story continues, brought car back to garage and a decision was made to refill with 0W30 however the correct Selenia Digitek was not available and has to be ordered in, car was refilled with Castrol Edge 0W30 but C3 and not C2 as it should be as it was not available. Engine appears to be running a lot better but still had a cold start isssue this morning. The Digitek will be in stock next week so will get changed to that then along with yet another filter change. My gut feeling is that the 5W40 that was put in originally was from a drum and may not have been the correct spec, either way I'm going with 0W Selenia Digitek going forward and hopefully the cold start issue will pass and no damage has been incurred. Its all complete madness and extremely frustrating that I cannot be told what the correct oil for my car is. The ambiguity is caused by the fact that my car was built in week 51 of 2013 and the Fiat system says it should have 5W40 oil as if its a Euro 5 engine however the cars manual states 0W30 and the ECU has a sticker on it that says Euro 6 as do Fiat so that would suggest 0W30. In fairness to my Indie they (apparently) put in the oil that the Fiat system states is correct but it contradicts the fact that its Euro 6. The only niggling doubt is if the 5W from the drum was correct or not as I would have thought the engine would probably run fine on either oil without cold start issues. It would seem too coincidental that the cold start problem is caused by anything other then the oil. You have to remember that Ireland is tiny compared to the UK and the entire population is probably the same as Manchester, the number of 500's on the road here is equally minute compared to the UK and there are only a handful of TA's on the road, I'd say mine was the first Euro 6 TA 500 to be serviced here hence garages not even stocking the correct oils or being that knowledgable about them, my Indie is a respected long established Alfa service centre along with being Fiat approved so in reality they should know better but I can empathise with the lack of clarity. I was just reading similar threads over on an Alfa forum and 2014 TA Mito owners are experiencing the same issues with lack of clarity about the oil, fiat system saying one thing and the manual saying another! I'll keep you posted when it gets refilled with Digitek later next week.:bang:
 
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There is not only lack of clarity. Some official dealers simply ignore what is specified by FIAT.

When my 500 with Euro 6 TA80* was delivered, I received 1 liter of 5W40 oil from my FIAT dealer, just in case I would need to top up later. I said that I liked the gesture, but that I'd rather receive the correct oil. The answer was that they used 5W40 for all TA engines.
eek.gif


*) In my country the TA85 has been replaced by a TA80 with 88 g/km CO2 because of the CO2 tax regulations.
 
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Our 85TA is Euro5.

Can I ask, what is the difference in the actual engine between E5 and E6?

What have they done mechanically to require a change of oil viscosity?

I can understand that they have changed the ECU and the cylinder head etc, but why do they need a thinner oil?

Is it that they've changed the hydraulics for the valves? or is the E6 turbo somehow different?

Or none of the above?

Ta
Mick.
 
The story continues, brought car back to garage and a decision was made to refill with 0W30 however the correct Selenia Digitek was not available and has to be ordered in, car was refilled with Castrol Edge 0W30 but C3 and not C2 as it should be as it was not available. Engine appears to be running a lot better but still had a cold start isssue this morning. The Digitek will be in stock next week so will get changed to that then along with yet another filter change. My gut feeling is that the 5W40 that was put in originally was from a drum and may not have been the correct spec, either way I'm going with 0W Selenia Digitek going forward and hopefully the cold start issue will pass and no damage has been incurred. Its all complete madness and extremely frustrating that I cannot be told what the correct oil for my car is. The ambiguity is caused by the fact that my car was built in week 51 of 2013 and the Fiat system says it should have 5W40 oil as if its a Euro 5 engine however the cars manual states 0W30 and the ECU has a sticker on it that says Euro 6 as do Fiat so that would suggest 0W30. In fairness to my Indie they (apparently) put in the oil that the Fiat system states is correct but it contradicts the fact that its Euro 6. The only niggling doubt is if the 5W from the drum was correct or not as I would have thought the engine would probably run fine on either oil without cold start issues. It would seem too coincidental that the cold start problem is caused by anything other then the oil. You have to remember that Ireland is tiny compared to the UK and the entire population is probably the same as Manchester, the number of 500's on the road here is equally minute compared to the UK and there are only a handful of TA's on the road, I'd say mine was the first Euro 6 TA 500 to be serviced here hence garages not even stocking the correct oils or being that knowledgable about them, my Indie is a respected long established Alfa service centre along with being Fiat approved so in reality they should know better but I can empathise with the lack of clarity. I was just reading similar threads over on an Alfa forum and 2014 TA Mito owners are experiencing the same issues with lack of clarity about the oil, fiat system saying one thing and the manual saying another! I'll keep you posted when it gets refilled with Digitek later next week.:bang:
make sure its topped up full. Even when my oil level is 250 ml below the max point, i can feel the engine note and smoothness change = ) its almost like i check the oil based on how my engine feels to drive = ) today it felt a bit rougher than usual especially when cold and i could here a rumbling noise below 3000, which usually happens when oil a bit low. Checked the dipstick and yes it was about 3/4 full the oil indicator so put about 250 ml in and all is well now = )
 
Can I ask, what is the difference in the actual engine between E5 and E6?

What have they done mechanically to require a change of oil viscosity?

I can understand that they have changed the ECU and the cylinder head etc, but why do they need a thinner oil?
It might have something to do with the fact that the Euro 6 TA engines have the MultiAir 2 intake valve control system, whereas the Euro 5 TA engines have the first generation MultiAir.
 
Hello Mick!
Oil and TwinAir is quite a Theme. Here in Norway, we have severe weather conditions during the winter, which requires a good low-temperature oil.


I've spent som hours, asking both professional garages and oil Companies, about the correct oil for the TwinAir. I've learned that the following two Oils have the quality which is required, both for a Complete oil change or a top up:
-Castrol Edge FST TD TI 5W-40
-Valvoline SynPower Xtreme MST C3 SAE 5W-40


I would absolutely not take any risk, topping up the Level With some low-quality oil My Experioence so far, is that a Motor Oil that complies With the FIAT 9,55535-S2 Specifications, not necessarily is an oil good enough for the Twin Air.


Good Luck!


Best Regards from TwinTurbo
 
The story continues, brought car back to garage and a decision was made to refill with 0W30 however the correct Selenia Digitek was not available and has to be ordered in, car was refilled with Castrol Edge 0W30 but C3 and not C2 as it should be as it was not available. Engine appears to be running a lot better but still had a cold start isssue this morning. The Digitek will be in stock next week so will get changed to that then along with yet another filter change. My gut feeling is that the 5W40 that was put in originally was from a drum and may not have been the correct spec, either way I'm going with 0W Selenia Digitek going forward and hopefully the cold start issue will pass and no damage has been incurred. Its all complete madness and extremely frustrating that I cannot be told what the correct oil for my car is. The ambiguity is caused by the fact that my car was built in week 51 of 2013 and the Fiat system says it should have 5W40 oil as if its a Euro 5 engine however the cars manual states 0W30 and the ECU has a sticker on it that says Euro 6 as do Fiat so that would suggest 0W30. In fairness to my Indie they (apparently) put in the oil that the Fiat system states is correct but it contradicts the fact that its Euro 6. The only niggling doubt is if the 5W from the drum was correct or not as I would have thought the engine would probably run fine on either oil without cold start issues. It would seem too coincidental that the cold start problem is caused by anything other then the oil. You have to remember that Ireland is tiny compared to the UK and the entire population is probably the same as Manchester, the number of 500's on the road here is equally minute compared to the UK and there are only a handful of TA's on the road, I'd say mine was the first Euro 6 TA 500 to be serviced here hence garages not even stocking the correct oils or being that knowledgable about them, my Indie is a respected long established Alfa service centre along with being Fiat approved so in reality they should know better but I can empathise with the lack of clarity. I was just reading similar threads over on an Alfa forum and 2014 TA Mito owners are experiencing the same issues with lack of clarity about the oil, fiat system saying one thing and the manual saying another! I'll keep you posted when it gets refilled with Digitek later next week.:bang:


So finally the supposedly correct oil arrived and I had it changed yet again yesterday along with filter. I was lead to believe it would be Selenia Digitek as speced but it turned out to be the stuff below!! The spec is the same as in 0W30 ACEA C2 but has a different Fiat classification to Digitek. I'm more concerned that it says it's for Euro 6 Diesel engines!! Should I be concerned seen that the actual spec is the same? ImageUploadedByFIAT Forum1425719375.104449.jpgImageUploadedByFIAT Forum1425719397.786638.jpgImageUploadedByFIAT Forum1425719425.859638.jpg
 
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