Northern Auto Tech - ECU and Blue & Me Repairs

Technical Stop Start Story

Currently reading:
Technical Stop Start Story

UFI said:
Modern cars have a massive stand by current draw, that just like that aftermarket alarm, will kill a battery in 3-4 years tops.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

That, in a nutshell, is the problem, compounded by S/S's apparent refusal to work properly with less than a near perfect battery.

In the final analysis, £100 for a battery every three years isn't the end of the world and is small in relation to the other costs of owning a car - even DIY owners spend that just on oil changes. Also, most devices that rely on rechargeable batteries seem to need them replacing at similar intervals.

If it really bothers you, the best way to extend battery life is probably to connect a trickle charger whenever the car is parked overnight, but this solution is only practicable for those keeping the car in a garage with a power supply.
 
Last edited:
Melanabb said:
Excuse my ignorance, but does S&S work straight away from cold or does it come on after the engine has warmed up? I'm thinking maybe it needs a bit of a charge before it works...
Click to expand...

It won't work straight away from cold - the coolant needs to have reached a certain temperature before S/S will kick in.
 
Melanabb said:
Excuse my ignorance, but does S&S work straight away from cold or does it come on after the engine has warmed up? I'm thinking maybe it needs a bit of a charge before it works...
Click to expand...
The car needs to be warmed up. The traffic lights in the village here, are only about half a mile from our house. If I leave home with the car cold, the SS doesn't operate at the lights.

---------------------------------------------------------

Out yesterday morning and checked out the SS.
The battery was fully charged and had been connected to the charger for 24hrs.
I left the ACC on at 22degC and the DRLs on.

I pulled over into a layby six miles down the road and the engine stopped ............... but only for 30secs. :mad:
I was rather despondent to say the least.

I drove away, and tried again a few miles later.
The engine stopped for a minute, so that made me feel a bit optimistic.

Third stop gave me a full two minutes. (y)

I carried on to destination and allowed the engine to stop one last time.
This time, it was 2mins 50secs. (y)(y)

Now, my thoughts are thus:
The winter is here, and no doubt the battery was very cold and took a while to warm up under the bonnet.
Or, maybe as I'd disconnected the battery for 24hrs, the software had to "learn" the parameters of the battery again.
Or, a combination of the two?

Whatever, the battery is still ok and I'm a happy bunny. :)

Thanks,
Mick.
 
Mick F said:
The car needs to be warmed up. The traffic lights in the village here, are only about half a mile from our house. If I leave home with the car cold, the SS doesn't operate at the lights.

---------------------------------------------------------

Out yesterday morning and checked out the SS.
The battery was fully charged and had been connected to the charger for 24hrs.
I left the ACC on at 22degC and the DRLs on.

I pulled over into a layby six miles down the road and the engine stopped ............... but only for 30secs. :mad:
I was rather despondent to say the least.

I drove away, and tried again a few miles later.
The engine stopped for a minute, so that made me feel a bit optimistic.

Third stop gave me a full two minutes. (y)

I carried on to destination and allowed the engine to stop one last time.
This time, it was 2mins 50secs. (y)(y)

Now, my thoughts are thus:
The winter is here, and no doubt the battery was very cold and took a while to warm up under the bonnet.
Or, maybe as I'd disconnected the battery for 24hrs, the software had to "learn" the parameters of the battery again.
Or, a combination of the two?

Whatever, the battery is still ok and I'm a happy bunny. :)

Thanks,
Mick.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's because ours is only a few weeks old but the start stop works at the lights at the end of our estate from cold, it's half a mile tops from our house, probably less. Whether it still will in a years time........
 
T Bay said:
Perhaps it's because ours is only a few weeks old but the start stop works at the lights at the end of our estate from cold, it's half a mile tops from our house, probably less. Whether it still will in a years time........
Click to expand...

How many blobs are showing on the dash engine temp display when this happens?
 
T Bay said:
Perhaps it's because ours is only a few weeks old but the start stop works at the lights at the end of our estate from cold, it's half a mile tops from our house, probably less. Whether it still will in a years time........
Click to expand...

When I bought my 2013 TA the S/S was not working reliably and after 12 months and some argument (using information gained from this forum!) I persuaded the dealer to replace the battery under warranty.

That battery is now 2.3 years old, I keep S/S on and do not charge the battery. The car is used, on average, 4-5 days a week and the longest trip is perhaps 15-20 minutes. The S/S often first operates if I stop at the lights about 400m from home, albeit not for very long, but after that seems to operate normally. I did have a period of a few days two months ago when it didn't operate at all and I assumed the battery had failed (as far as S/S was concerned) but it came good and is currently working normally again.

This may be due to the relatively mild weather we experience here.

Whether it makes a valuable contribution to MPG or emission control I'm not qualified to say; my attitude is that, like the radio, it's fitted to my car, I paid for it, and therefore I expect it to work.
 
I can understand the battery aspect of this.
I've noticed that due the lack of use of my 500, the S/S only starts to become effective after I've used it for a couple of days.
And then it works quite well.
I've noticed it actually works better than on another vehicle we own, although that system is on a larger engine & is definitely effected by the vehicle temp/ air conditioning / heating.
 
I like a warm air conditioned car, therefore the ACC is turned to 22degC and sometimes warmer.
Maybe our SS doesn't work straight away because the car it trying to warm me up and considering my comfort paramount.

What I have never tried, is turning off the ACC at the start of a drive to see if the SS works earlier.
Off out driving this afternoon and going through the village traffic lights, so I'll experiment with the ACC off.

See ya later,
Mick.
 
Mick F said:
I like a warm air conditioned car, therefore the ACC is turned to 22degC and sometimes warmer.
Maybe our SS doesn't work straight away because the car it trying to warm me up and considering my comfort paramount.

What I have never tried, is turning off the ACC at the start of a drive to see if the SS works earlier.
Click to expand...

For engine wear considerations, I wouldn't even dream about trying to heat the cabin until the coolant had reached normal operating temperature.

Checking the heating is selected to "cold" is part of my pre-start checklist.

I'd rather shiver for the first couple of miles than wear out the engine unnecessarily.
 
Last edited:
The good thing about ACC, is that nothing happens to the cabin temp or the fan until the engine can handle it, although the aircon pump still runs/cycles I suppose.

I tried this afternoon, by switching on the ignition, selecting ACC to off, then starting the car.
I drove off through the village and the SS didn't stop at all when I stopped at the traffic lights less than half a mile away ............... as I expected.

I turned the ACC back on and carried on through Tavistock and on to Plymouth. At each and every stop, the SS worked perfectly. When I parked at Machine Mart (long story why I went there) I stayed in the car park to see how long the SS would do its business. 2mins 45secs.

That'll do nicely.
Mick.
 
T Bay said:
Perhaps it's because ours is only a few weeks old but the start stop works at the lights at the end of our estate from cold, it's half a mile tops from our house, probably less. Whether it still will in a years time........
Click to expand...

The 500 (at least my 2013 software) requires a coolant temp of 50*C before activating. In Australia, that's sometimes achieved by the end of the drive way ;)

Now my 2016 Renault will stop immediately from cold - the lowest I've seen is 22*C.

From memory the Prius requires 40*C.

In my old car I'd wait for ~50*C before turning the engine off for the first time. Immediate stop starts make the car look good on the official economy test cycle, but the bulk of evidence would suggest 50*C is a good idea. If the newer cars stop sooner, they should have a revised city MPG/ CO2 figure.
 
Alexcubek said:
I've just replaced mine with a bosch battery as part of my RAC cover.
Click to expand...

Interesting. This link suggests you can add battery replacement cover for around £21pa.

Given the cost and failure rate of S/S batteries, this could be worth considering if they'll replace your battery once S/S no longer works properly*. As always, I suspect the devil is in the detail - better read the small print.

*I'd bet money they won't - it'll likely only be replaced if the car outright fails to start.
 
Last edited:
jrkitching said:
*I'd bet money they won't - it'll likely only be replaced if the car outright fails to start.
Click to expand...
I agree, I'd bet money too.

Same as I said earlier, a four year warranty on a SS battery isn't worth the paper it's written on. Four year warranty? You would only need to pay for one battery for the LIFE of the vehicle.

In our dreams. :eek:

Regards to all,
Mick.
 
jrkitching said:
For engine wear considerations, I wouldn't even dream about trying to heat the cabin until the coolant had reached normal operating temperature.
Click to expand...

With oil flowing, the draw of heat for the cabin isn't likely to increase wear at a noticeable rate. I'd have said what you do is OTT imo, but each to their own.
 
A little update to my story.

I fitted a new SS battery 17 Dec 2014 ........... that's 26months ago.

The car at that time, was just over three years old, and the existing battery wouldn't stop the engine for more than a few seconds. Some time in its young life, the battery had been neglected.

Even after 26months, the engine will stop for the full 3mins.
I keep the battery on permanent charge when parked at home, with the added advantage that the car runs much sweeter when cold.

It will be interesting to find out how long this battery will still give 100% performance. Maybe there's no limit providing it's kept fully charged.

Regards,
Mick.
 
Mick F said:
A little update to my story.

I fitted a new SS battery 17 Dec 2014 ........... that's 26months ago.

The car at that time, was just over three years old, and the existing battery wouldn't stop the engine for more than a few seconds. Some time in its young life, the battery had been neglected.

Even after 26months, the engine will stop for the full 3mins.
I keep the battery on permanent charge when parked at home, with the added advantage that the car runs much sweeter when cold.

It will be interesting to find out how long this battery will still give 100% performance. Maybe there's no limit providing it's kept fully charged.

Regards,
Mick.
Click to expand...

Similar story; I persuaded the dealer to replace the battery, under warranty, when my car was 12 months old in August 2014. The S/S has performed flawlessly ever since.

I don't charge the battery outside of when the car's running, but it doesn't get that cold here. At this time of year the S/S will stop the engine at the lights 300 yards from home. Not for long I grant you but it's soon working normally.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Technical How to recognise stop-start
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
Bonefish Blues
Bonefish Blues
boatboy121
General Fiat 500 Stop Start Battery Terminal
2
Replies
24
Views
2K
boatboy121
boatboy121
J
General Stop/Start not working
3 4 5
Replies
82
Views
4K
Piccolo Nero e Bella
Piccolo Nero e Bella
I
Technical Stop/Start Batteryl
Replies
12
Views
1K
Piccolo Nero e Bella
Piccolo Nero e Bella
P
General Start stop
Replies
8
Views
1K
Hennoir
H
Back
Top