Due to problems with our new 500 1.2 we are looking into exchanging it for a diesel 1.3 so would really appreciate any feedback from owners or anyone with experience of the diesel motor.

Just traded mine in - but I will miss it! Constant 60-70mpg, great for distance driving, also around town, although not recommended as a city car due to problems with particulate filter?

Otherwise, the same bodywise etc as your 1.2, minus hopefully the problems!

Good luck.

Do not buy one if you do not regularly do 20 minute plus trips at over 80kmh. Definitely do not but for mostly around town usage.

Hi, I have one from june of 2013 (70kW model). I bought it as new. Till this day I have done 50.000 km without any issue. I changed oil and filters. I am driving mostly on highways, but I do not have any problems with driving in city, as short drives, cold engine and so on.

I've had one for four years.

The steel sump pan goes rusty very quickly so deal with that, I had to have new gear shift cable fitted and the pivot point released. The return spring in the gear box is buggered so you have to help it back into the gate.

Two new bushes fitted at the front, door handle fell off and the gear shift gaiter fell to bits but that is all standard stuff. Now the hatch electrics needed attention, a cable in the boot-let is partially severed and the plug behind the hatch trim disconnects and you loose number plate lighting.

I have the 95 H, I get about 50 MPG on a mix of shopping and motorway cruising.

No trouble with the engine which is very lively for a 1.3.

zanes said:

Do not buy one if you do not regularly do 20 minute plus trips at over 80kmh. Definitely do not but for mostly around town usage.

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:yeahthat:

And do not buy one if you are planning to keep it for more than about 5 yrs/70k.

More than a few folks have reported expensive issues with DPF equipped cars in later life. Injectors, camchain and of course the DPF itself are all considered by Fiat to be limited life items - replacing the lot could cost you in the region of €4000-€5000.

If you're going to trade it in after 3-4 yrs and do regular longer trips, it'll likely be fine.

I've said this before, but if the 1.2 was the right choice for your planned use of the car but you can't live with the new behaviour, then IMO you'd do much better to buy a different marque altogether.

Think Swift/Citigo/i10.

Is this the case with any modern diesel or just Fiat diesels ? Our 500 like all our cars do most of their miles on a twice weekly commute along the route from North Pembrokeshire-M4-and just past Newbury. In between there are of course short journeys that if persistent will presumably cause problems for the DPF. Slightly of this topic and on to battery change I've been monitoring the original Excide battery that is described as "Heavy-Duty". What a lot of nonsense, as already pointed out in previous threads on the topic of stop-start this particular piece of original equipment was past it's best just months after we bought it even though it only did 250 miles commutes.

This battery whilst still working fine only holds 12.5 volts and contrary to popular opinion it-is knackered in the same way that bold tyres still work.

I have never had to replace a battery on a four years old car, the new Silver batteries have gone into our Fiat powered motorhome and shortly into the 500 but I'm miffed that after caring for the damn thing that it's knackered.

Ricard said:

Is this the case with any modern diesel or just Fiat diesels ?

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Certainly anything with a high pressure common rail fuel system & a DPF.

We're not in Kansas anymore - modern diesels don't just keep on going and going.

Ricard said:

This battery whilst still working fine only holds 12.5 volts and contrary to popular opinion it-is knackered in the same way that bald tyres still work.

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The problem is that worn batteries, unlike bald tyres, waste fuel.

jrkitching said:

The problem is that worn batteries, unlike bald tyres, waste fuel.

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I hadn't realised that, can you please explain and I'm sure there are are lot's who don't know. There are lots who think a battery that holds 12.5 volts is ok and I'm laughed at for changing batteries that work.

Ricard said:

Is this the case with any modern diesel or just Fiat diesels ? Our 500 like all our cars do most of their miles on a twice weekly commute along the route from North Pembrokeshire-M4-and just past Newbury. In between there are of course short journeys that if persistent will presumably cause problems for the DPF.

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It'll be fine (or as fine as DPFs get)- the blockage % will increase during the short journeys but then it will get burnt off by a DPF regen on the long runs. The problem <really> starts when people don't do those long runs (which don't need to be anywhere near as long as pembrokeshire to newbury to trigger a regen), or do them every six months or whatever. Well, aside from the fact that the regen reduces trapped soot to ash, but eventually the DPF clogs with the residual ash that can't be burnt off.

I seem to be saying this a lot recently, but with the EU5/6 regs for diesels and the price of diesel where it is now, the vast, VAST majority of people are better off, over the course of 5-6 years of private ownership or buying used, going for a small petrol. Preferably N/A.

However, if you're on a lease, company car or change every 3 years into a new car without fail then they might be worth considering, provided you do regular longer high speed journeys.

I would not be surprised if the bottom drops out of the used diesel market before much longer. These modern diesels will be money pits.

zanes said:

I would not be surprised if the bottom drops out of the used diesel market before much longer. These modern diesels will be money pits.

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Interesting. Would you say that buying a used 'modern' diesel just prior to dpf introduction will have similar low reliability/high long-term running cost issues?
Or is it the dpf that makes such a huge difference?

Sweetsixteen said:

Interesting. Would you say that buying a used 'modern' diesel just prior to dpf introduction will have similar low reliability/high long-term running cost issues?
Or is it the dpf that makes such a huge difference?

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DPFs are definitely a large, but by no means the only, factor. Especially once the MOT test gets its act together and properly checks for DPF removal (the current diesel emissions test is, frankly, a joke for a modern diesel given the health concerns now being aired). External visual inspection for the presence of a DPF, whilst tripping up a far few "early adopters" of DPF deletes is similarly limited.

Consider that prior to returning to Jap ownership a family member had a 2005 diesel Merc (non-DPF) diagnosed as needing a new engine, and Merc's response when approached for a contribution was "120k miles isn't bad for a diesel engine".

As I explain (also time and time again) when someone "calls me out" for suggesting that modern diesels are unreliable: It's not so much that they're necessarily unreliable on a day to day basis, it's that a modern diesel has a turbo, DPF, DMF and very, very high pressure injectors that a modern N/A petrol doesn't and in exchange has very little advantage (for most people, hyper milers and BIK tax avoiders excluded) when everything is considered over said petrol. None of those things are cheap to replace when they inevitably go wrong. 100k seems to be the magical figure.

How much better MPG do you have to get to balance out a DMF (usually about a grand, all in) replacement alone and the greater cost to buy and fuel a diesel?

As to pre-DPF cars: I think DPF's really started to come in around 2005-2007. Worth considering that most diesels of that age will be getting "leggy" by now. I'm reasonably sure by then that common rail injection systems were the norm. I'd still buy petrol in that age range-turbos may well be creaking and DMFs were also around.

TL;DR: All factors considered, you have to be lucky to make a diesel work financially in the UK, unless you're into BIK tax issues.

Ricard said:

I hadn't realised that, can you please explain and I'm sure there are are lot's who don't know. There are lots who think a battery that holds 12.5 volts is ok and I'm laughed at for changing batteries that work.

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Sure. There are two main reasons worn batteries waste fuel.

The first is that the car's charging system will try to hold battery voltage to whatever parameters it thinks are 'normal' - an ageing battery will dissipate much of the power supplied by the alternator as heat, rather than retaining it as stored energy (old batteries run warmer & in extreme cases have been known to explode - it makes a mess in the engine compartment). So the workload on the alternator is higher, as it keeps trying to bring the battery up to voltage - this extra workload has to be paid for in fuel.

The second is that an old battery will self discharge faster when the car is standing, especially if for a few days or more. When you next use the car, the alternator has to replace whatever charge has leaked away, and once again that means more work for the alternator and an increased fuel burn.

jrkitching said:

Sure. There are two main reasons worn batteries waste fuel.

The first is that the car's charging system will try to hold battery voltage to whatever parameters it thinks are 'normal' -

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Thank you.

It's what I had learnt some time ago though a surprising number of those servicing our vehicles do-not understand the battery-charging and associated technology and to make the matter clearer the reason a very expensive 12V control system on a motorhome recently failed through overload to the charging circuit which included and balanced the engine battery .7 volts below the habitation batteries.

zanes said:

TL;DR: All factors considered, you have to be lucky to make a diesel work financially in the UK, unless you're into BIK tax issues.

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:yeahthat:

Small modern N/A petrol engines should run 200,000 miles without needing more than oil, filters & spark plugs changing.

zanes said:

All factors considered, you have to be lucky to make a diesel work financially in the UK, unless you're into BIK tax issues.

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Appreciate the explanation.
Still, a lot of running costs must come down to a little bit of luck and a big slice of proper maintenance.

I've been running a long-term Merc C-Series diesel estate, pre-dpf and with the egr knocked out, which is still sweet at 200k miles with no unexpected expenses, and looks like it has settled in for the long haul, while averaging just over 54 mpg.

A different animal of course, but early this year I also bought a used Panda 1.3 Multi, 2009 but just pre-dpf. It averages 67mpg, and has now covered 80k miles.

Looks like I may soon be in for a few bills, judging by the many threads I've read here - battery, timing chain, etc. If I get another 50k out of it without spending heavily I will be satisfied, but otherwise, by comparison, it does not look like a good long-term investment from the overall cost/comfort/performance point of view.

Your comment about maintenance reminded me of another more modern issue- extended interval servicing. Running an engine on 20k mile oil changes is madness.

jrkitching said:

:yeahthat:

Small modern N/A petrol engines should run 200,000 miles without needing more than oil, filters & spark plugs changing.

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how about electronics? the thing i am most worried about is the sensors on the car playing up, the dreaded engine check light!

ahmett said:

how about electronics? the thing i am most worried about is the sensors on the car playing up, the dreaded engine check light!

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Yes, that's the big uncertainty with running the current generation cars until they drop.

jrkitching said:

Yes, that's the big uncertainty with running the current generation cars until they drop.

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It used to be the case that if ever a Diesel engine stopped, it was bound to be fuel. Nothing else ever stopped 'em! They just ran and reliably ran.

Different situation nowadays. Both good and bad. That's called progress.