Hi there,

I'm a newbie to the forum and just about to take the plunge and order a new 500 1.2 lounge in the new mint green colour with dualogic. I'm also considering the Vauxhall Adam too but leaning towards the 500 as mint is my favourite colour so I know it should make me smile everyday for the next few years!
I've read a couple of horror posts over the last couple of days (searched on forum for dualogic) however about various problems people have had with the gearbox being faulty or becoming damaged... Actuator, clutch etc. I've been driving a semi-auto for 3 years (2003 Toyota yaris) so I'm used to the lag/jerking that some people complain of and this won't be too much of an issue for me, I'm more concerned about whether I'm going to have problems with the gearbox. I know the car will be covered by 3 years warranty but the reason I'm shopping for a car is due to problems with my semi auto yaris - the actuator isn't working properly and sometimes the car will revert to neutral and won't select any gears (including while driving) and the clutch is getting worn out as a result. I'm having last minute worries about whether I'm likely to have similar problems with the dualogic or whether the complaints I've read are the exception to the norm?

Any advice or reassurance will be gratefully received!

Thanks
Leanne

Welcome!

As I'm sure you're aware (you sound very sensible; and have obviously done your homework...), there'll always be more negative views and reports on any product, than positive ones... -- for obvious reasons.

However, I have to report that Mrs homeward is delighted with her Mk3 Panda Dualogic (2009); and even I -- used to the absolute pondlike smoothness of the CVT 'box in the Punto -- get acclimatized to the slight (and it is slight) jerkiness that comes with a robotized manual after only a few minutes.

It's a great setup for such a small car (obviously based on the same platform as the 500 -- and also with the 1.2 engine, albeit an earlier version...); and I would recommend it heartily! Mrs h does around 15,000 miles a year in hers, and it's -- touch wood! -- never let her down once. If I were to replace the Punto, I would buy another Mk3 Panda Dualogic in a heartbeat...!

By the way, if you want proof that it's a good gearbox, then look no further than ahmett -- who has done his very best to test it to destruction! It looks like he may now have succeeded: but I can't imagine that you'll be doing the same....

PS: Saw a new mint-green 500, a couple of days ago -- a fabulous colour that suits it perfectly...!

Although I've not driven a dualogic, and don't actually even have a 500 any more the dualogic doesn't have a bad reputation; I'm not sure we've ever seen a "massive dualogic failure" in the 500 section.*

Probably a few people with niggles (fixed under warranty), but our resident mad driver (Ahmett, with a 1.4 dualogic) has had a few problems, but he drives it very harshly in a harsh climate (Greece). Even then his latest repair bill was reasonable and that's on an older 500 (2008, ahmett?)

One thing that is worth mentioning is that the dualogic system in the 500 is far, far superior to the old selespeed that was in older FIATs/Alfas which you might have heard a few horror stories about.

In fairness to your Yaris, 11 years isn't bad going before problems start appearing.

If it's not too intrusive, have you considered a manual? Much much cheaper and the 500 has a very "easy" gearbox. I appreciate there may be reasons you don't want to go into.

*Edit: Rereading your post it looks like I'm wrong about the "no big failures". Perhaps "very few big failures" would be more appropriate. There again, a few years back we had someone whose manual gearbox went bang within 100 miles (FIAT obviously made it right), so odd failures do happen in everything every so often.

yes I would concur with previous posts although i'm not a DL owner. After all it is just a standard gearbox & clutch like any 500 but with an actuator doing the work along with some software. If it's what you want then go for it. I somewhat regret not getting a DL as I drove autos for years and do miss them in commuting traffic etc having said that the manual is really nice too with really nice slick changes and a perfectly positioned gear lever. Also if you are ordering a new one why not get the paddles on the steering wheel as an option for fun manual changes - not that expensive.

Guys, my dualogic review?

The gearbox is a typical single clutch electrohydraulic gearbox, so is very jerky in town and is in my opinion much worse than the technologically advanced dual clutch DSG automatic gearboxes. Fiat has access to this technology, but are simply too stingy to implement it. (don't get me started about the cost the dualogic gearbox isn't exactly a cheap option.)

In 90,000 kms, my gearbox has broken twice. (once under warranty, once myself which I paid 540 euros at a Bosch dealer to fix including replacing the clutch. If I had gone to Fiat it would have probably cost at least 800.)

If I had the choice again I would just get a manual. I feel the Dualogic box represents aging technology.

However, if you drive in traffic all day everyday, the slow gearchanges in auto mode matter less so would probably be easier to drive than a manual.

Mind you, I drive about 25,000 kilometres a year in town and out of town 'fast driving', so it is probably not designed for my type of driving.

It also probably suits the 1.2 and the TA more than the less flexible 1.4.

So yes, end result, if you plan on keeping the car forever and ever and do many miles, you will need to maintain it more than you would a manual, so I would say factor in about 1000 GBP extra for repairs over let say the 10 years life of the car. I have the feeling that the automatic system does not respect the clutch as would a careful driver.

I always had it that there were packaging issues with a twin clutch auto in the 500 (consider the 1.4 turning circle issues due to the six speed box, for instance).

zanes said:

I always had it that there were packaging issues with a twin clutch auto in the 500 (consider the 1.4 turning circle issues due to the six speed box, for instance).

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my 1.4 still has rubbish turning circle and it has a 5 speed gearbox! (the dualogic)

My TwinAir also has a bigger turning circle than I'd expect from a 3.5m long car Not sure why this is...

My Dualogic review: no problems so far after a year of ownership. I too was worried about reliability and did heaps of reading online and forums etc. But in the end some of the existing Dualogic threads on this forum swayed me, and I have no regrets.

Dualogic very much seems to be an acquired taste. Most people who know nothing about Dualogic and then test drive a car with it tend to say it's complete rubbish. I don't feel the same way -- I think it works perfectly fine. It's a bit rough and unrefined (jerky gear changes sometimes from 1st to 2nd), but that's exactly what I expect coming from FIAT

My only complaint about the Dualogic is if you select reverse too fast or if your car is still moving ever-so-slightly while you select reverse, then it tends to go into neutral with the warning beep. A Dualogic-equipped vehicle definitely isn't going to win any awards for fast 3-point turns. Slow and deliberate is the way to go.

44sunsets said:

My TwinAir also has a bigger turning circle than I'd expect from a 3.5m long car Not sure why this is...

My Dualogic review: no problems so far after a year of ownership. I too was worried about reliability and did heaps of reading online and forums etc. But in the end some of the existing Dualogic threads on this forum swayed me, and I have no regrets.

Dualogic very much seems to be an acquired taste. Most people who know nothing about Dualogic and then test drive a car with it tend to say it's complete rubbish. I don't feel the same way -- I think it works perfectly fine. It's a bit rough and unrefined, but that's exactly what I expect coming from FIAT

My only complaint about the Dualogic is if you select reverse too fast or if your car is still moving ever-so-slightly while you select reverse, then it tends to go into neutral with the warning beep. A Dualogic-equipped vehicle definitely isn't going to win any awards for fast 3-point turns. Slow and deliberate is the way to go.

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Tell me about it! I also feel that it goes from 2nd to 1st gear too slow and from reverse to 1st too slow as well!

Slower than a manual, that's for sure!

Three point utes can be slow. So caution is needed if your doing so with cars approaching.

That being said I love my 500s with dualogic. I use it almost exclusively in manual and find when I get in other cars I'm searching for the paddles now.

There is something about it that makes you connected to the car which standard auto boxes don't give you. Feels much like a manual but in traffic it's not an effort.

Agreed, Adzee. It took me a while before I started using the paddles, but it's definitely worthwhile.

I like driving in the default TwinAir mode (eco button off) which tends to hold low gears a bit too long for my tastes, so I change up using the paddles.

44sunsets said:

Agreed, Adzee. It took me a while before I started using the paddles, but it's definitely worthwhile.

I like driving in the default TwinAir mode (eco button off) which tends to hold low gears a bit too long for my tastes, so I change up using the paddles.

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My Twinair is of course manual (according to the dealer the very last manual Lounge) but the partner's 500C Pop is a DL 1.2 so I get to experience both worlds, albeit without paddles or TA on the DL. I have to say the auto drives me up the wall (so to speak) in the 1.2 but I daresay the TA would be more entertaining.

Mine is a Dualogic with paddles. No problems in 10 months. The paddles are great fun, the best £150 or so I have spent on a car.

44sunsets said:

Agreed, Adzee. It took me a while before I started using the paddles, but it's definitely worthwhile.

I like driving in the default TwinAir mode (eco button off) which tends to hold low gears a bit too long for my tastes, so I change up using the paddles.

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Yes the car wants to rev a lot or get to a rpm level they determined was best, but then it doesn't always shift when you'd expect or if you know you have to brake soon and don't want to change - this is why I use the manual mode.

Driving it is a pleasure and reminds me of my manual days which I enjoyed a lot so I'm happy.

ahmett said:

Tell me about it! I also feel that it goes from 2nd to 1st gear too slow and from reverse to 1st too slow as well!

Slower than a manual, that's for sure!

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Ahmett, how does dualogic work on inclines if there is no hill hold facility. In a manual you can obviously balance using the clutch.

arorat said:

Ahmett, how does dualogic work on inclines if there is no hill hold facility. In a manual you can obviously balance using the clutch.

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You hold the brake until you need to move and then you accelerate. At low speeds pressing the throttle lightly is like holding the clutch in a manual, but you must be careful when doing it not to wear out the clutch too much. Basically you need to press the brake until you need to move and use the throttle. (manual says this anyway). If it is very steep, again like a manual use the handbrake.

ahmett said:

You hold the brake until you need to move and then you accelerate. At low speeds pressing the throttle lightly is like holding the clutch in a manual, but you must be careful when doing it not to wear out the clutch too much. Basically you need to press the brake until you need to move and use the throttle. (manual says this anyway). If it is very steep, again like a manual use the handbrake.

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Thanks Ahmett, very useful.

Maruti-Suzuki have launched their new small car, the Celerio, in India with the option of a Dualogic (Fiat) gearbox. It is simple and cheap, and that matters for the Indian market.

There's an incredible waiting list because Indian urban traffic is horrible.

But it's only available with the basic versions of the car, no airbags even!, because of cost constraints.

It must be pretty robust to be launched in India, where most drivers are new to driving and haven't got a clue.

Ulpian said:

Maruti-Suzuki have launched their new small car, the Celerio, in India with the option of a Dualogic (Fiat) gearbox. It is simple and cheap, and that matters for the Indian market.

There's an incredible waiting list because Indian urban traffic is horrible.

But it's only available with the basic versions of the car, no airbags even!, because of cost constraints.

It must be pretty robust to be launched in India, where most drivers are new to driving and haven't got a clue.

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It's another affordable car for India, under £5k for the top version. Traffic rules are in warp time quantum suspension in India, so if you think about it all drivers do have a clue (with exception of a few) on how not to drive Do you want to guess what the most used item is in an indian car ? Starts with "H"

Ulpian said:

It must be pretty robust to be launched in India, where most drivers are new to driving and haven't got a clue.

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Either that, or Dualogic is just the cheapest auto option

I did note when I bought my 500C that the Dualogic was $1500 extra over the manual transmission. In Australia we usually pay $2K more for the auto option in many cars.