Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

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Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Does anyone know when this issue was resolved? Will I be safe buying a Fiat 500 registered 31/03/2015?? I have had a test drive in it, but didn't come across any steep hills! :)


I think all the newer cars are safe. It was 2014 models I believe
 
A few folks have mentioned getting the software update and this improving things. Does anyone know the software update name or number so I can advise this to my dealer. <My 15 plate Panda certainly struggles going up hills, hill starts and pulling away due to a dead spot
 
A few folks have mentioned getting the software update and this improving things. Does anyone know the software update name or number so I can advise this to my dealer. <My 15 plate Panda certainly struggles going up hills, hill starts and pulling away due to a dead spot

I am sure I have read a post somewhere on here with a campaign number, but I honestly have no idea where - may possibly be on another thread.

If your car is struggling to go up hills, then the first thing I would suggest is ring your dealer and tell them about the problem. It really needs someone (preferably the dealer's DET (dealer expert technician)) to come out with you in your car so that they can see first hand what the problem is.

As for anyone else buying a used 1.2 500/Panda that is 63 plate or more recent, the best advice is still to give it a good test drive and try it out on some hills if you can. My wife bought a 13 plate 1.2 500 last year, and the first thing she did was drive a minute from the dealership to a steep hill. It was absolutely fine and has been absolutely fine ever since.

I think the bottom line is don't over-complicate things. If you test drive the car and it feels OK to you when pulling away/doing a hill start, then I'm sure it will be fine:)
 
As for anyone else buying a used 1.2 500/Panda that is 63 plate or more recent, the best advice is still to give it a good test drive and try it out on some hills if you can.

I'd agree; I've been saying much the same thing since this thread got going.

If you test drive the car and it feels OK to you when pulling away/doing a hill start, then I'm sure it will be fine:)

From all that's been posted, I'd say it's very much a case of 'buyer beware'.

There are certainly many Euro6 1.2 owners who are perfectly happy with their car, but equally there are folks who've had the fix, posted that the car is transformed, then come back a few weeks later to say it still isn't as it should be.

One thing I'd add to anyone contemplating purchase; if you do find you can't live comfortably with it once you've paid for it, it'll likely be difficult or impossible to get the issue properly resolved. Make sure you give it the most thorough pre-purchase test drive you can, and I'd caution against buying one on the strength of an internet post saying someone is happy with their own car.

As they say, your mileage may vary, and it's you who will have to live with it.

It is a great shame that Fiat as yet haven't been sufficiently forthcoming with information to remove this shadow from what is otherwise a fine, well proven engine.
 
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Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Hi guys back in this post again. I posted back almost on the first page of this thread with what I thought was a fix for my car, a missing bolt from the inlet manifold on number 4 cylinder. When I fitted a new bolt the lack of power on take off seemed to have been cured but it turned out it only relieved the symptoms a little. When idleing the car would still have a little 'bumble', almost like a gentle misfire and when pulling away it still dropped power but not as much as before, I learned to live with it..
The past couple of weekends I've been out for a bit of a run and really didn't enjoy driving the 500.
So when I came back to this thread and it was on page 11 I thought I'd look over the car again this time with air filter housing off, to see if I could find anything else, and found another manifold bolt missing this time the one under the manifold on cylinder 4. I've fitted another replacement bolt and it's like driving a new car, pulls in forth accelerates up through the gears like my old 59 plate 500.
I've taken picture of the manifold where the new bolt is fitted can you guys look to see if your cars look like they are missing the bolt/s if the bolts are there can you check the tightness of the most accessible one I'm hoping this could be the problem were suffering from.

Picture to follow
Hi bought a 12s 500 registered Nov 2015 it's got this misfire at low revs , went back to dealer and they either not bothered or just haven't a clue, they said software for car is up to date I'm reading stuff about ecu updates etc and remaps and missing manifold bolts , there's got to be a way to fix this any ideas cheers
Paddy
 
Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

there's got to be a way to fix this

If it were that easy, this would have been fixed ages ago. The best explanation I have to date is that some combinations of hardware tolerances leave a residual problem which can't be resolved using any software update developed thus far. There are plenty of folks who've given up trying, and have either learned to live with it, or sold the car.

All I can do is to repeat what I said last month:

One thing I'd add to anyone contemplating purchase; if you do find you can't live comfortably with it once you've paid for it, it'll likely be difficult or impossible to get the issue properly resolved. Make sure you give it the most thorough pre-purchase test drive you can, and I'd caution against buying one on the strength of an internet post saying someone is happy with their own car.
 
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Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

If it were that easy, this would have been fixed ages ago. The best explanation I have to date is that some combinations of hardware tolerances leave a residual problem which can't be resolved using any software update developed thus far. There are plenty of folks who've given up trying, and have either learned to live with it, or sold the car.

All I can do is to repeat what I said last month:

One thing I'd add to anyone contemplating purchase; if you do find you can't live comfortably with it once you've paid for it, it'll likely be difficult or impossible to get the issue properly resolved. Make sure you give it the most thorough pre-purchase test drive you can, and I'd caution against buying one on the strength of an internet post saying someone is happy with their own car.
basically translating to; don't buy a Fiat 500 1.2 Euro6 unless you test drive the one you are buying by some hills.
 
Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Hi there checked my car today and found this bolt is missing also, are you referring to an additional bolt missing underneath this one , managed to put my had down and felt another possible void were a bolt should be on number 4 ? Car has been running with this flatspot since I bought it new in Feb 16, of course dealer hasn't a clue and just puts it on a computer
Thanks Paddy
 
Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Hi there checked my car today and found this bolt is missing also, are you referring to an additional bolt missing underneath this one , managed to put my had down and felt another possible void were a bolt should be on number 4 ? Car has been running with this flatspot since I bought it new in Feb 16, of course dealer hasn't a clue and just puts it on a computer
Thanks Paddy

I think the missing bolts idea has been shown to be a red herring - they are a leftover from a previous use of the same casting.
 
The fix is a new clutch sensor (re-learn potentiometer) and software remap.

Fiat have known how to fix this for ages but will not admit it has a problem otherwise it could be challenged on the emissions front like Volkswagen and would face a massive recall.

To get them to change the sensor and do the re-map first you need to take it to a Fiat garage and say the car has an issue pulling away, hill starts and managing to drive up steep (sometimes not) hills. They will then start an investigation. First they will probably try and tell you the crap that it is a 'characteristic' of the car and need to changing driving style. Have none of it !!.

If you want to satisfy yourself just drive a 2010 1.2 and compare to the 2014/15 cars and you will see same engine but handles like a totally (and far superior) different car.

They will offer a software update but unless you also get them to change the clutch sensor it will not be a total fix. Keep nagging and demanding.
 
The fix is a new clutch sensor (re-learn potentiometer) and software remap.

Fiat have known how to fix this for ages but will not admit it has a problem otherwise it could be challenged on the emissions front like Volkswagen and would face a massive recall.

To get them to change the sensor and do the re-map first you need to take it to a Fiat garage and say the car has an issue pulling away, hill starts and managing to drive up steep (sometimes not) hills. They will then start an investigation. First they will probably try and tell you the crap that it is a 'characteristic' of the car and need to changing driving style. Have none of it !!.

If you want to satisfy yourself just drive a 2010 1.2 and compare to the 2014/15 cars and you will see same engine but handles like a totally (and far superior) different car.

They will offer a software update but unless you also get them to change the clutch sensor it will not be a total fix. Keep nagging and demanding.

Very interesting post!(y)

What you are saying makes a lot of sense to me personally; we used to have a 59 plate 1.2 500 and a 12 plate 1.2 Panda (new shape). When we lived in our old house, the 500 had no trouble reversing up the steep drive, but the Panda really never seemed to like it. In fact, it often felt like I was burning the clutch just to move it those few metres up the drive:eek:

The only time the Panda was OK with it was for a week or so when the clutch sensor had broken off and I was waiting for it to be replaced. Gear changing was extremely clunky during that week, but it was no issue reversing up that drive!:D
 
The fix is a new clutch sensor (re-learn potentiometer) and software remap.

Fiat have known how to fix this for ages but will not admit it has a problem otherwise it could be challenged on the emissions front like Volkswagen and would face a massive recall.

To get them to change the sensor and do the re-map first you need to take it to a Fiat garage and say the car has an issue pulling away, hill starts and managing to drive up steep (sometimes not) hills. They will then start an investigation. First they will probably try and tell you the crap that it is a 'characteristic' of the car and need to changing driving style. Have none of it !!.

If you want to satisfy yourself just drive a 2010 1.2 and compare to the 2014/15 cars and you will see same engine but handles like a totally (and far superior) different car.

They will offer a software update but unless you also get them to change the clutch sensor it will not be a total fix. Keep nagging and demanding.
thank god someone has finally solved this thread completely = )))
 
Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Out of interest are Ford still using the 1.2 FIRE in the current KA's they're churning out? Have any of these with euro 6 compliance had issues do we know?

You bet!! In 2010 I purchased a Ford Ka Titanium 1.2 petrol. My wife and I liked it so much, when we heard two months ago that the Ka Titanium had already stopped production in January we immediately set about finding one of the few unsold examples in a decent colour.

After locating one held in Rhyl, N. Wales, by the Ford dealer R.W. Davies (finished in Diamond White with leather interior, Panaoramic glass roof, heated seats etc.) I lodged a deposit on it within minutes. So now we have one each (the wife has the new one).

We took delivery about a month ago and could not be happier with it - it rides so much smoother than the 60 plate car, NVH is much reduced, and the interior oozes quality and luxury. It's like driving a mini-Bentley.

Just one huge problem: it's burdened with precisely the problem that is the subject of this thread: a frustrating hesitation accelerating away from rest, no matter how gentle , or aggressive, the driving style employed.

This extract below from my email to the dealer reflects the problems other posters are experiencing:

There are two problems with the Ka, which I suspect are related, which manifest themselves during normal (i.e. gentle, unhurried) driving conditions:

1. The car regularly falters, or hesitates, when accelerating from rest, and regularly hesitates following changing up a gear. From my car/HGV mechanic days during the 70s and 80s it reminds me of the symptom of a weak mixture sometimes caused: a) in the case of fixed choke carburettors, by a blocked accelerator jet or faulty accelerator pump; or b) in the case of constant depression carbs, lack of oil in the damper. I am totally ignorant of today’s sophisticated injection/ignition systems, but a quick search on Google suggests that low fuel pressure caused by a faulty pressure regulator would be one of several possible causes.

I once came across a cracked inlet manifold which gave the same symptom. Should this be the cause (which would mean that the problem is too much air, rather than not enough fuel), it seems that a computer diagnosis might not pick it up, at least, if a certain website is to be believed which asserts:
"Another reason for a lean mixture is Too Much Air. The stoichiometric air/fuel ratio is maintained by computer sensors. A leak in the intake manifold or air ducts may let air into the cylinders that is not recorded by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). If air gets into the engine that the computer does not measure the engine will run lean. Systems that use a Mass Airflow Sensor(MAF) or a Vane Airflow Sensor(VAF) rely upon an air intake system with no air leaks. On systems that use an airflow sensor, any air intake leak will cause a lean mixture."
2. The second problem, which I suspect is a second manifestation of the same fault, is that sometimes while driving along, say, at 20mph – 30mph, and you step off the gas, the car fails to decelerate with normal engine braking but instead continues to cruise with partial power. Likewise, sometimes whilst stationary at idle the engine turns over at too high an engine speed, and takes time to settle down.

This is also a manifestation of a weak mixture. So, bearing in mind the problem of hesitation on acceleration, it is surely possible that this too is caused by a weak mixture.


At the suggestion of Davies's technician I replenished the tank with Shell V-Power but alas there's no discernable difference in the fault. However I'm very pleased indeed to report that upon hearing the bad news he has shown determination to get to the bottom of the problem, even to the point of authorising me to put both my Ka's on a local rolling road to obtain print-outs of their power outputs. This has been scheduled for Friday this week.

I have of course since digested the posts on this thread and have directed him accordingly.

Jon
 
Hi we have just brought a new fiat 500 lounge reg. September 2016 for our daughter who had recently past her test. While taken her pass+ driving exam she could not get the car up a hill. The driving instructor took over and with difficulty (LOTS) got it up the hill.
We have taken it back to the fiat garage. They did a report on the car it has been checked over by their technicians and it has the latest software with no faults found .this appears the same fault as in the watchdog program shown in 2014 , I was aware of this issue but understood it had been fixed with a software upgrade, at the time . has anyone else had a problem with the 1.2 67bhp New 2016 cars struggling to get up a hill or poor hill start ?
 
Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Hello and welcome to Fiat forum :wave:.

Sorry to hear you're having problems with your new Ka; sadly it seems this issue is still affecting purchasers of brand new cars when it's been well known for at least two years now.

I'm very pleased indeed to report that upon hearing the bad news he has shown determination to get to the bottom of the problem, even to the point of authorising me to put both my Ka's on a local rolling road to obtain print-outs of their power outputs.

Your Ka may have been built in Poland by Fiat, but at least your dealer experience couldn't be further away from what we've come to expect. Fiat have a long history of denial and obfuscation and we still have no definitive idea what this is all about, nor any answers beyond advising that noone buy a Euro6 Fiat engined 1.2 without test driving the specific car they will be buying and satisfying themselves that its performance meets their needs.

I'm pleased Ford are taking this seriously and this shows the kind of attitude to customer care that car buyers deserve.

If we ever get to a real understanding of what this most frustrating issue is all about, and what can be done about it, it would not surprise me if the breakthrough comes via a Ford-badged car.

Please stay with us and report on progress; it could be of great value to us all.
 
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Hi.
Well i've just put a deposit on a 1242cc Panda 2014. It felt OK-ish on the test drive but remember I'm coming from a 2.5v6 Rover. So this clutch sensor what is it for..... Stop start perhaps which mine doesn't have. Can this sensor be adjusted or even removed without effecting the ECU?
 
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