...or open up the cluster and remove the LED.

Hey girls might be relevant might not but I was at the dealer to check on my lights (didn't work you can see my lighting thread) and she was at the dealer as her Alfa Romeo Juliette was saying start stop unavailable with engine check light on. She was like I was scared the car would break but now the check light is not on and its a hassle to come to the dealer.
I told her not to worry its a very common problem that everyone has and if I was her just press disable start stop and not worry about it. I told her the batteries are rubbish and in the start stop traffic of Athens it has no hope = )


I then told her that since her car is leased don't waste your time too much with it and if you need to come to the dealer again because they didn't fix it or were too bored to put a new battery, to ask the leasing company for a new car as this one is rubbish!

ahmett said:

Hey girls might be relevant might not but I was at the dealer to check on my lights (didn't work you can see my lighting thread) and she was at the dealer as her Alfa Romeo Juliette was saying start stop unavailable with engine check light on. She was like I was scared the car would break but now the check light is not on and its a hassle to come to the dealer.
I told her not to worry its a very common problem that everyone has and if I was her just press disable start stop and not worry about it. I told her the batteries are rubbish and in the start stop traffic of Athens it has no hope = )


I then told her that since her car is leased don't waste your time too much with it and if you need to come to the dealer again because they didn't fix it or were too bored to put a new battery, to ask the leasing company for a new car as this one is rubbish!

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WTF, have you been smoking the sticky green?

Had my 12 plate (second hand) 500 Pop for 6 months (only done 7.5k in total). The stop start is a real pain, when it works it's fine, but my journey in to town 12 miles away has 37 sets of lights and because I join the flow of traffic at the same point each day... I always hit the same red lights. After a couple of weeks of repetitive stop start motoring the Stop Start does not work.

The problem you have I think is related to town driving and surely that's what a stop start function is really for. Interestingly though the cost of a new battery and starter motor far outweighs the fuel saving so I've stopped worrying!

I'm wondering what the fuss is all about, I drive similar journeys every day . sometimes the stop start works at every set of lights, sometimes it doesn't work for the whole journey, I don't instantly think "my stop start has failed get to the dealer" when it doesn't kick in. I have assumed that the system works when the conditions are right, or have I missed something?

scout500 said:

I'm wondering what the fuss is all about, I drive similar journeys every day . sometimes the stop start works at every set of lights, sometimes it doesn't work for the whole journey, I don't instantly think "my stop start has failed get to the dealer" when it doesn't kick in. I have assumed that the system works when the conditions are right, or have I missed something?

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Exactly! If it doesn't work then all the car dies is behave like a car without s&s!!!!! oh no!!!!!!!

I tried the SS system during the first couple of days of owning my Fiat then switched it off and haven't used it since. I don't have a long commute and rarely sit in traffic for more than a couple of minutes so it probably wouldn't make much of a dent in the consumption anyway. Having said that I was also put off by all the 'conditions' under which it might, or might not, work.

The hill-holder works fine but I learned to drive a long time ago using the hand-brake and clutch on hills.

Gardengnome said:

I tried the SS system during the first couple of days of owning my Fiat then switched it off and haven't used it since. I don't have a long commute and rarely sit in traffic for more than a couple of minutes so it probably wouldn't make much of a dent in the consumption anyway. Having said that I was also put off by all the 'conditions' under which it might, or might not, work.

The hill-holder works fine but I learned to drive a long time ago using the hand-brake and clutch on hills.

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I don't understand turning the SS off. If its working it doesn't interrupt normal driving and similar when its not operational. Why would you be put off by the 'conditions', its not as if you have to adjust your driving style. and to quote Tescos, every little helps, especially if it saves you money for doing nothing and you don't have a yellow light on the dash permenantly.

I doubt that, in actual use, SS would save much money at all for the majority of owners. It's basically a bauble that's been stuck on the specification in order for FIAT to be able to claim lower emission and fuel consumption figures. If, like me, you don't do many long journeys then SS will hardly ever activate. If you do a lot of long journeys, then SS will hardly justify its existence.

The only telling difference that SS really makes is the reduction in the RFL every year. If the government boffins took a step back and considered the real world impact that the system makes, then I don't believe we'd even get that.

BJM

Over the lifetime of the car, S/S will likely cost money, not save it. If you don't believe me, just wait until you need a new battery.

scout500 said:

I don't understand turning the SS off. If its working it doesn't interrupt normal driving and similar when its not operational. Why would you be put off by the 'conditions', its not as if you have to adjust your driving style. and to quote Tescos, every little helps, especially if it saves you money for doing nothing and you don't have a yellow light on the dash permenantly.

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Hey, if I'm not using it I switch it off! And I don't mind a permanent light on the dash - it doesn't do any harm. I don't use the interior light either, that's also switched off.

Anyway I do have to change my driving style to accommodate the SS; if I'm stopped for a short time I hold the clutch in and remain in gear, habit of a lifetime. If I'm going to be stopped longer I disengage gears and turn the engine off myself - why do I need an electronic nanny to do it for me?

There's one advantage to the SS system; you get a bigger battery, and that's never a bad thing.

Gardengnome said:

Hey, if I'm not using it I switch it off! if I'm stopped for a short time I hold the clutch in and remain in gear, habit of a lifetime.
If I'm going to be stopped longer I disengage gears and turn the engine off myself - why do I need an electronic nanny to do it for me?

There's one advantage to the SS system; you get a bigger battery, and that's never a bad thing.

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if you sit with the clutch down , the SS doesn't activate.., it needs the clutch UP in Neutral,

when the SS does shut off the engine..,
the simple action of depressing the clutch (to be ready for engaging 1st gear),
will re-start the engine.. no fumbling with the ignition key / lock barrel.

the battery on SS equipped cars is VERY expensive compared to a convention FIAT car,
as is the alternator /starter motor.

varesecrazy said:

if you sit with the clutch down , the SS doesn't activate.., it needs the clutch UP in Neutral,

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varesecrazy said:

Yes, that's how it works...

when the SS does shut off the engine..,
the simple action of depressing the clutch (to be ready for engaging 1st gear),
will re-start the engine..

Ditto...

no fumbling with the ignition key / lock barrel.

I never fumble...

the battery on SS equipped cars is VERY expensive compared to a convention FIAT car,
as is the alternator /starter motor.

And your point is...?

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jrkitching said:

Over the lifetime of the car, S/S will likely cost money, not save it. If you don't believe me, just wait until you need a new battery.

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Oh, I believe it...should it ever prove necessary to replace the battery then I'd just drop a bog-standard battery in. If my suspicions are right, the diagnostics would throw a dicky fit and never allow SS to operate. Win-win!

In 26 years of car ownership, the only starting system failure I've ever suffered (apart from a bad battery) was a dodgy Bendix. If the 500's starter and alternator are heavier duty than normal, then they *should* prove trouble free.

Fate has thus been tempted...!

BJM

Totally agree, BJM! A 12V lead-acid battery is just that - nothing more, no matter what gizmos are attached. As you say, if the starter/alternator are more robust because of the SS system then so much the better for 'normal' use. To save weight (and cost) most small cars these days are fitted with the absolute smallest battery possible (I think my old Daihatsu Cuore used a couple of AA's) so any extra margin is always welcome.

Seem to be some strange behaviours. Why switch the SS off, if you're driving never accommodates it to kick in then why bother switching it off?

I've just done 2300miles miles in a courtesy 500 I had and cannot fault the SS system. I also fail to see the majority of people's issues with it.

It's like people who don't like apple products. Haters gonna hate.

Gardengnome said:

the battery on SS equipped cars is VERY expensive compared to a convention FIAT car,
as is the alternator /starter motor.

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If you buy the battery from FIAT, it'll be expensive - as will the battery for any car, if you buy it from the car maker.

I'm sure I priced a replacement EFB for my 500 at around 85 quid - hardly a great deal in the grand scheme of things. Buy a good pulse charger (a CTEK for example) and you'll eke a lot more life out of your battery anyway - bench charging before every winter is a good plan.

And if you get the better chargers, they have a desulphation mode to revive older batteries - I brought a 7 year old Bosch battery that was totally flat (and had been left on a car for 9 months in that state) back to life and it was perfect.

The starter for a S&S car isn't 'special', it's just bigger, and has a greater duty cycle to avoid it overheating.

As MEP eloquently put it, luddites will always be luddites - my 500 is 2 and half years old and the S&S has been faultless. Fact is, if you're worried about 'things going wrong' - buying a 500 isn't a great idea, as it's a small car with quite a lot of electronics tech attached to it. Go and buy a Dacia.

As discussed, the reason for SS has rather more to do with Government figures and the perceived additional sales from reduced RFL than sound environmental thinking. How much extra are we paying in the price of a new 500 for the uprated components and additional widgets that make SS work? Offset that against the supposed savings and where, on average, does that leave us?

Until recently I ran a Morris Minor and old-skool Mini City, they were somewhat lacking in any form of technological nannying, and were none the worse for it.

If you need Electronic Stability, you're driving too fast.

If you need Hill Holder, how on earth did you pass your test?

If you need Start Stop, did your Mum wipe your nose before you left home?

I think everyone should learn to drive in a Moggie.



BJM

Eeeeee, in my day you could fix cars with a fag packet and some screwdrivers.

Those days are gone. Move on.

Move on to what - trusting a black box in a tin can? Let's widen the scope a bit here - we're sleepwalking into a future where planes fly themselves and their pilots are too complacent and trusting that they're flummoxed when things go wrong.

Everywhere in our lives, engineers are trying to design out common sense.

BJM