Hi,

Just wondering, specifically the red colours, how is your Passadoble Red bearing up through the years? Does it fade like older reds tended to do (does this still happen generally?) or does it still look vibrant and deep a few years into the car's life?

My next 500 I'd like to get in red, but I see a lot of red cars looking very tired (not necessarily Fiats though)!

Ant

Good question! I've ordered mine in that exact colour... Will be interesting to see the response!

Pasadoble chips if anything.

I would probably avoid most Fiat reds after having an Alfa Red MiTo (I believe this colour was discontinued - not sure if it still is). It was absolutely covered in chips after 10,000 miles and battered at 35k when I got rid. Looked awful and knocked my confidence in red cars. I can only imagine what it looks like now! My Maserati blue Bravo has the odd chip here and there but seems much more durable - just shy of 34,000 miles.

They don't fade anymore like they used to I don't think but I'd be more worried about having any paint left on the car! The worst was Vauxhall Flame red I think up until about 2007 when they started applying clear coat?? - not sure how accurate my telling of this is.

306maxi said:

Pasadoble chips if anything.

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Maxi is right. I've got one; it's the most chip prone finish of any car I've had in the past 30 years.

Hasn't faded, though.

austenw90 said:

I would probably avoid most Fiat reds after having an Alfa Red MiTo (I believe this colour was discontinued - not sure if it still is). It was absolutely covered in chips after 10,000 miles and battered at 35k when I got rid. Looked awful and knocked my confidence in red cars. I can only imagine what it looks like now! My Maserati blue Bravo has the odd chip here and there but seems much more durable - just shy of 34,000 miles.

They don't fade anymore like they used to I don't think but I'd be more worried about having any paint left on the car! The worst was Vauxhall Flame red I think up until about 2007 when they started applying clear coat?? - not sure how accurate my telling of this is.

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OH has an Alfa Red MiTo (they dis-continued the Giuletta red - it was too orangey) and it's a '09. Full of stone chips on the bonnet and the rear arches. She still loves the colour. Hasn't faded. And funnily enough she would order the same colour again. Personally I couldn't. Does not seem to have faded.

Black suffers the same fate but not as bad. The pearlescent colour of ragamuffin (a Red that has been dis-continued ) and Funk white don't seem to chip but expensive to repair when they need touching up.

You can get a clear transparent cover to go over the red in the areas prone to chipping. I haven't looked into it but I would consider it if I was buying Red or if the OH ordered it again.

loveshandbags said:

OH has an Alfa Red MiTo (they dis-continued the Giuletta red - it was too orangey) and it's a '09. Full of stone chips on the bonnet and the rear arches. She still loves the colour. Hasn't faded. And funnily enough she would order the same colour again. Personally I couldn't. Does not seem to have faded.

Black suffers the same fate but not as bad. The pearlescent colour of ragamuffin (a Red that has been dis-continued ) and Funk white don't seem to chip but expensive to repair when they need touching up.

You can get a clear transparent cover to go over the red in the areas prone to chipping. I haven't looked into into but I would consider it f I was buying Red or if the OH ordered it again.

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The rear arches on the MiTo are quite pronounced aren't they - really they could do with some 3M type film fitted from new as you see on the 8c and I have seen on some Porsche and Mercedes models to try and prevent it in the first place. Front mudflaps may help a bit as well.

Modern clear coats have UV inhibitors so colours no longer fade (even in Aus), given enough time though, clear coats do tend to peel.

FGA paintwork is very soft and not particularly durable in my experience.

bgunn said:

FGA paintwork is very soft and not particularly durable in my experience.

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Oh dear then. Lets see how long they last. Because I think repainting a car costs a lot of money!!! Anyone know how much it would cost approximately?

UFI said:

Modern clear coats have UV inhibitors so colours no longer fade (even in Aus), given enough time though, clear coats do tend to peel.

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I agree, but from the descriptions of the chip problems, I'm starting to wonder whether there is any clear coat on this particular red. Maybe it's a thick single direct gloss layer. OR conversely (and this makes more sense) maybe there is an extra-thick clear coat to keep the UV from fading the red basecoat. Thick paint will chip more readily, as will over-hard (i.e. scratch resistant clearcoat) paint.

Otherwise it's baffling how a particular colour would have different paint film properties to other colours.

Putting a clearcoat over red turned out to be more of a hindrance for FIAT in the 90s - Punto, Bravo, etc. had a nasty surprise waiting for when the owner discovered that the red basecoat had turned pink under the clearcoat, so couldn't be polished. At least when an 80's FIAT (Uno, Strada) turned matt orangey-brown, you could polish it back to red!

-Alex

bgunn said:

FGA paintwork is very soft and not particularly durable in my experience.

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Soft paint won't chip, as it absorbs impact. Think of the textured coating applied to sills and wheelarches - it's there to absorb impacts without chipping the coloured paint applied over the top. You can usually leave a fingernail indent in it.

Hard, thick paint is what chips off most readily, as the impact of a stone is transmitted through the paint, cracking it. Resprayed areas are more prone to chips for this reason - the extra paint thickness is more easily cracked.

EDIT: re-reading, maybe you meant to say that the paint is easily scratched and loses its gloss, which are both faults of the paint being too soft (not durable, as you said ) sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick...

-Alex

alexGS said:

Soft paint won't chip, as it absorbs impact. Think of the textured coating applied to sills and wheelarches - it's there to absorb impacts without chipping the coloured paint applied over the top. You can usually leave a fingernail indent in it.

Hard, thick paint is what chips off most readily, as the impact of a stone is transmitted through the paint, cracking it. Resprayed areas are more prone to chips for this reason - the extra paint thickness is more easily cracked.

-Alex

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I didn't say it was particularly prone to chipping, but it swirls/marrs very easily.

In comparison to an 11 year old A3 I bought as a project car to repair, which has been washed with sponges all of its life and is hardly scratched - the paintwork is like granite on that.

bgunn said:

I didn't say it was particularly prone to chipping, but it swirls/marrs very easily.

In comparison to an 11 year old A3 I bought as a project car to repair, which has been washed with sponges all of its life and is hardly scratched - the paintwork is like granite on that.

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Yes! I agree, I'm having a hard time keeping my black Alfa scratch-free - just washing it is a problem. I see what you meant now

On the other topic of chips, I found some good advice in http://www.clean-image.co.uk/articles/stone-chips.htm

-Alex

What I found particularly bad with red is that it has a white undercoat. When the red paint is chipped away the white shows through and the two colours are quite contrasting. I know this is also the case with other colours but red seems particularly bad against white and therefore chips are more easily identifiable.

alexGS said:

I agree, but from the descriptions of the chip problems, I'm starting to wonder whether there is any clear coat on this particular red. Maybe it's a thick single direct gloss layer. OR conversely (and this makes more sense) maybe there is an extra-thick clear coat to keep the UV from fading the red basecoat. Thick paint will chip more readily, as will over-hard (i.e. scratch resistant clearcoat) paint.

Otherwise it's baffling how a particular colour would have different paint film properties to other colours.

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It has to have a clear coat or it wouldn't shine, all modern cars have clear coats, even when the painted is a solid colour (non metallic). Since different chemistries are needed to achieve different colours and effects, it's not too much of a stretch for some colours to be more resilient than others. The clear coat is probably the same for all Fiats, as factories are generally set up for only one type of clear coat.

I'm no chemist, but I know when I spray different colours from the same brand/ type they often behave quite differently.

I went with white because it will look good for the longest.

ahmett said:

Because I think repainting a car costs a lot of money!!! Anyone know how much it would cost approximately?

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It will depend on the cost of labor in your country, the paint itself might run to $500 tops, unless you go for a real fancy finish. Here, a factory quality respray will set you back $8000+, or nearly half the cost of the car. If you can prep the car yourself you can save a lot of money though.

http://www.venture-shield.co.uk/

You could try this

Interesting to hear all the replies. I hate stone chips. Thankfully my cha cha cha azure hasn't suffered too badly. Maybe a dozen over the entire car and they are not too noticable. (I must actually fill them in maybe this weekend...)

By the sounds of it though, a red car that chips easily, with white primer...hmm, it's moved down a slot or two on my list!

Ant

UFI said:

I went with white because it will look good for the longest.

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and being the lightest colour, it will take longer for the sun to do its thing.....