- Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 2,102
- Points
- 358
No, you're right, but the bump damping at the front seems almost non existant, so the car tends to plough over a bump. And then the rear has a bit too much bump, as it skips over the bump.
Currently reading:
Technical Koni FSDs on Twin Air cars
No, you're right, but the bump damping at the front seems almost non existant, so the car tends to plough over a bump. And then the rear has a bit too much bump, as it skips over the bump.
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
On the USA Fiat 500 website there's a picture somewhere of how little suspension travel exists on the European model. With the essesse springs the bump stops should be reduced to a Fiat coupe size as a standard fit.
On the insurance angle I felt that replacing the sub-standard shocks with performance ones like the FSDs would be different than fitting a full set of Bilsteins like the B14s. On Maxi's quote the difference in premium IIRC was minimal. If I fitted the FSDs I probably wouldn't tell them since they a dealer supplied modification but was accept that it's only on the Abarths. If I fitted the cheaper Bilstein OEM replacement shocks I wouldn't bother telling them.
On the insurance angle I felt that replacing the sub-standard shocks with performance ones like the FSDs would be different than fitting a full set of Bilsteins like the B14s. On Maxi's quote the difference in premium IIRC was minimal. If I fitted the FSDs I probably wouldn't tell them since they a dealer supplied modification but was accept that it's only on the Abarths. If I fitted the cheaper Bilstein OEM replacement shocks I wouldn't bother telling them.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 2,102
- Points
- 358
FSDs are no way going to be classed as an OEM replacement, difference in premium or not. They're not fitted to non Abarth models, and I suspect in the event of a claim, the insurer get sniffy and might ask FIAT if they are standard fit on a non Abarth model. I agree, the Bilstein OEM replacements wouldn't be considered a modification.
After getting my car back today, it's interesting to feel the difference with the 1.2 Pop I had, it's softer and less 'jiggly' on the whole - I suspect because there's less bump damping at the front.
Currently running the FSDs with SS springs on our 1.4 sport. I have tried them with standard springs also. The ride is pretty dreadful on all but the smoothest road surfaces.
I tolerate this as the handling improvements outweigh the dreadful ride. Only just!
Its always had a clonking rear end. Oddly its worse with the 14 steel winter/wheel set up than the 16 alloys I have been using. I am having the coupe bump stops fitted next month at service and will try it out on some 17 alloys. You never know!
I have the FSDs fitted to our GP and the are great.
If we keep the car I am tempted to try an alternative set up.
I tolerate this as the handling improvements outweigh the dreadful ride. Only just!
Its always had a clonking rear end. Oddly its worse with the 14 steel winter/wheel set up than the 16 alloys I have been using. I am having the coupe bump stops fitted next month at service and will try it out on some 17 alloys. You never know!
I have the FSDs fitted to our GP and the are great.
If we keep the car I am tempted to try an alternative set up.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 2,102
- Points
- 358
Thanks for your insight - what's the ride height of your car? Hub centre to wheelarch on both front and rear?
I suspect the 14" steels make your suspension knock even more because the unsprung mass is lower, so the wheels move more quickly (with less inertia) over bumps.
It's looking like Bilsteins more and more - low ride height is one thing; but rattling/knocking suspension will not do.
What wheels do you have on? When I drove Jason's car it had some 15" Team Dynamics wheels on, so fairly light and only 15" so 16" Fiat wheels might make for a jigglier ride, but I don't remember you being a big wheel person so I'm guessing steelies or 15" wheels?
The Twins
Established member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2013
- Messages
- 1,560
- Points
- 283
I'm getting really tempted by the 'billies' and keep 15" wheels.
Those team dynamics wheels are a lot lighter than stock too. I think mine (on a previous car) were only about 6kg iirc.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 2,102
- Points
- 358
Currently, Steels with winter tyres, but in a month or so, 16" O spoke wheels.
Just measured the ride height of the car. 340-345mm front (it varies from side to side!), 365/370mm rear. So it's 15-20mm lower than the poverty spec 1.2 already.
If the Bilstein ride height drop of 30-50mm is from the highest riding cars, that could work out for me.
The billies are fantastic. The damping is just so much better which isn't hard to be fair.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 2,102
- Points
- 358
If anything, they'll cope with greater unsprung mass far better than anything else - so the bigger wheels will be under more control.
I need to drive one with B14s on!
Just to muddy the waters further.......
http://forum.thescorpionclub.co.uk/showthread.php?62-Discussion-Suspension-Upgrades
People on there say that the Koni's are more comfort based, but then again they're not really going to work with standard TA springs......
I certainly didn't find Jason's car harsh on bumps at all. Just felt controlled.....
http://forum.thescorpionclub.co.uk/showthread.php?62-Discussion-Suspension-Upgrades
People on there say that the Koni's are more comfort based, but then again they're not really going to work with standard TA springs......
I certainly didn't find Jason's car harsh on bumps at all. Just felt controlled.....
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 2,102
- Points
- 358
If the ride hight is right, and the car is supple and controlled, it's exactly what I'm looking for.
I want to say "get the billies! They'll be fine and you won't regret it" but I'm the sort of person who will only say that if I know that the other person is really going to like them because it's a big purchase.
I want to get some Bilstein's for our 500, but spending money on the car isn't top priority atm and if I'm honest I would probably want to get a quaife diff too. I'm having so much fun in the mornings taking a totally different line off a roundabout and straightening the car up so much earlier than everyone else, there's an overtaking lane after the roundabout and the 500 seems to surprise a different person every morning with its ability to get alongside
With a Quaife it would be hilarious fun - Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 2,102
- Points
- 358
I know - but the cost is not the issue if they do exactly what's required (which I think they will). I've never had a hesitation on spending good money on making a good car better. It's so young that I'll get maximum benefit from them too. I'm thinking I'll get a set on order next month (or the month after!)
I want to get some Bilstein's for our 500, but spending money on the car isn't top priority atm and if I'm honest I would probably want to get a quaife diff too. I'm having so much fun in the mornings taking a totally different line off a roundabout and straightening the car up so much earlier than everyone else, there's an overtaking lane after the roundabout and the 500 seems to surprise a different person every morning with its ability to get alongside
The 1.2 has a C514 gearbox too, doesn't it? Hmmmmmm. Mind you, I can't say I've ever been in a situation where traction has been an issue (yet) as the suspension is so wooly. A quaife ATB diff would be something I'd fit later on
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
Good link Maxi. A lot of the same people from the other Abarth forum. My read of it is that the Bilsteins are where you're looking to do some track time and to 'try before you buy'. Re the FSDs they are being sold to work on the all 500 models and the TA has already being covered by bgunn. If it was my car I would lower by 5mm with the 1.4 springs. Unsure if the FSD is 'tuned' slightly differently depending on the model you're buying them for. My vote still goes for the FSD on a 500 for 'street' use but they wouldn't be an 'investment' like the Bilsteins which would should last a lot longer.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 2,102
- Points
- 358
The FSD are a one model show, they're specced as covering the whole lot including Abarth (apart from the TA because of the aforementioned bracket differences).
I hear what you're saying, and I would consider the FSDs if the reliability of them wasn't a concern, there's far too many knocking rear dampers for my liking.
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
Seems to be the rears that give trouble. What guarantee would you be offered if you bought them ? And if they went wrong putting in an interim set in 'back' of the 500 isn't that big a job.
I'm going back a couple of years but a mate's XR3i with a set of Bilsteins become very rattly and seemed to develop a lot of creaks with the hard suspension.
I'm going back a couple of years
but a mate's XR3i with a set of Bilsteins become very rattly and seemed to develop a lot of creaks with the hard suspension.- Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 2,102
- Points
- 358
True. The failure rate is too high for my liking though.
I'm going back a couple of years
A car with a much floppier body with a lot lower torsional stiffness. The 500 is quite a bit stiffer than an old Escort (thankfully)
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 2,102
- Points
- 358
As I had my car up on stands to change the oil (and rid the car of the chewed sump plug - thanks Motor Village FIAT!), I thought I'd take a photo to compare with the photo I took of the 1.2. For those that are interested, the bracket in question that's missing from the Koni's that TA cars have is as follows:
1.2 damper:
TA damper:
You can see there's an extra bracket to support the pad wear sensor wiring. So easily fabricated and tacked onto the brake hose support bracket if you want to fit FSDs to your TA.
1.2 damper:
TA damper:
You can see there's an extra bracket to support the pad wear sensor wiring. So easily fabricated and tacked onto the brake hose support bracket if you want to fit FSDs to your TA.
interesting that Koni haven't just added the bracket to the FSD's or offered some sort of kit.
