Technical Stop Start failure on Twin Air

[Hawkshaw]

I know this has been an issue for some time. I have a Twin Air bought in June 2012. Initially the stop start worked. Recently however it rarely functions if at all. My mileage isnt large (about 6000 pa) and maybe in the winter with lights on etc the battery doesnt get enough back up charge. Its been back to the dealer twice. First we had new sensors ( I think) fitted then the battery was replaced. Tested by the garage and found OK. After we got it back it reverted to not functioning. Its blooming irritating on a car we like a lot. Is this just something we have to live with now?

 

[bgunn]

No. There are other threads about this subject on the forum that are worth reading..

 

[jrkitching]

My mileage isnt large (about 6000 pa) and maybe in the winter with lights on etc the battery doesnt get enough back up charge.

This would be my best guess as to the reason.

I believe there is a software update for the S/S which may help (probably by loosening the tolerance on acceptable battery parameters) - something to ask your dealer perhaps?

When you say it doesn't work, do you mean it never activates, or it activates then quickly restarts?

 

[bgunn]

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/205211-calling-all-start-n-stop-owners.html

This is one thread I'm talking about. Sorry if that seemed a bit harsh, but there's quite a lot of info in that one thread, and it's best to keep it there and avoid having to go through it all again.

But to start with, is the S&S problematic in cold weather? If so, yes, there is a service notice suggesting a software update for the engine management will fix this.

 

[Andy Monty]

got a decent volt meter? When you park up pop bonnet, lock car ( this turns off interior light etc)

Time 10 mins if voltage is < 12.72m2V dc at the battery the ss won't work as car sees battery as low on stored charge

take it off and charge with a 4ah smart charger

once charge is finished leave an hour off charge to allow surface charge to dissipate and refit give the car several days to let the ss control relearn the parameter and analyse the battery

 

[Andy Monty]

if it occurs again your looking at a new battery assuming you have had any related software updates carried out and none of the criteria listed inthe ss section are occurring at the time it fails to activate

 

[Hawkshaw]

Thanks for all your responses. Yes I am more than aware this is an existing thread but only having just joined the forum I had problems finding the ongoing traffic. (thanks for the new link update).

At the moment it doesnt work at all. Previously it did but restarted almost immediately.

 

[bgunn]

Battery charge is too low - probably worth charging the battery with a smart charger as suggested (don't need to disconnect the battery for this, just make sure you don't connect the neg terminal of the charger to the neg post of the battery, otherwise you'll confuse the IBS, connect it to a good earth (the engine block))

 

[jrkitching]

At the moment it doesnt work at all. Previously it did but restarted almost immediately.

That is suggestive of a progressively weakening battery. Do you have access to a digital voltmeter to test it in the way Andy suggests?

My own 3yr old car was left standing for a week during the recent cold snap, and did a couple of premature restarts shortly thereafter. Now that the 2010 model cars (the first to have S/S fitted as standard) are coming up to their third birthday, I suspect this is the tip of a very large iceberg. It seems that 3-4 yrs will be the realistic maximum life expectancy of batteries on S/S equipped cars, and with replacements costing north of £100, it rather puts into question the economics of the system.

 

[bgunn]

If the battery was never fully charged when the car was PDId, the IBS won't have generated a particularly accurate SoC (State of Charge) reading.

 

[zanes]

That is suggestive of a progressively weakening battery. Do you have access to a digital voltmeter to test it in the way Andy suggests?

My own 3yr old car was left standing for a week during the recent cold snap, and did a couple of premature restarts shortly thereafter. Now that the 2010 model cars (the first to have S/S fitted as standard) are coming up to their third birthday, I suspect this is the tip of a very large iceberg. It seems that 3-4 yrs will be the realistic maximum life expectancy of batteries on S/S equipped cars, and with replacements costing north of £100, it rather puts into question the economics of the system.

£100? Really?

 

[jrkitching]

£100? Really?

Really.

And that's just for an ECM/EFB battery. If you choose an AGM replacement, it'll cost more.

 

[Andy Monty]

Really.

And that's just for an ECM/EFB battery. If you choose an AGM replacement, it'll cost more.

That one is too big..( won't fit a punto evo, biggest that will fit that is the el700)

The standard 1.2 8v 500 uses a 63ah battery if it stops snowing I will go see if the 70ah unit will fit the 1.2

Looks like the oem battery is a "special" got a quote of £220 from one dealer

Even euro is expensive

http://www.eurocarparts.com/other-car-batteries/searchkeyword/el600




Just beware the new battery must be fully charged and left off charge one hour before fitment

 

[Andy Monty]

If the battery was never fully charged when the car was PDId, the IBS won't have generated a particularly accurate SoC (State of Charge) reading.

Or like my evo was sat for 6 months on a airfield through winter.. I think that the oem battery was screwed before I got it.....

 

[306maxi]

That one is too big..( won't fit a punto evo, biggest that will fit that is the el700)

The standard 1.2 8v 500 uses a 63ah battery if it stops snowing I will go see if the 70ah unit will fit the 1.2

My 500 had a smaller battery as standard, my upgrade one is only 52aH. But of course mine isn't S&S

 

[ahmett]

Really.

And that's just for an ECM/EFB battery. If you choose an AGM replacement, it'll cost more.

jrkitching, sorry to be ignorant but what exact type of battery do I need for my fiat 500 1.4? It is non s/s.
12 v 44 ah type 63? something like that
sorry but I can't be sure!!

thank you for your help.

 

[jrkitching]

That one is too big..( won't fit a punto evo, biggest that will fit that is the el700)

The standard 1.2 8v 500 uses a 63ah battery if it stops snowing I will go see if the 70ah unit will fit the 1.2

Sorry Andy, I copied that link from another post without checking.

You're spot on with the OEM spec; I should have revisited my own post first .

Even euro is expensive

Euro is expensive, full stop. Much cheaper here

 

[bgunn]

EL600 is the battery specced for the car, FIAT lists it as £145.96 on ePER at December's price.

FIAT lists it as a 60Ah, 450CCA (EN) battery, although I notice that the spec of the battery given on that link is 540CCA (EN)- so it's obviously an improvement on the initial spec. Mind you, CCA figures are like NEDC economy figures - ****e and pointless

£84.98 is very much better than FIATs price, bench charge it fully with a smart charger, fit it and once the IBS calibrates itself (interim calibration is done after a start and then 4 hours rest), you'll find the S&S behaves beautifully.

 

[jrkitching]

£84.98 is very much better than FIATs price

That includes VAT & free delivery, too .

 

[jrkitching]

Mind you, CCA figures are like NEDC economy figures - ****e and pointless

On S/S cars, voltage stability would seem to be much more important - we'll be replacing these batteries long before they become too weak to turn over the engine on cold mornings.

On a positive note, if we're replacing batteries early to avoid annoying premature S/S restarts, we might just be spared the spurious EPAS warnings which seem to proliferate on the Panda forum.