TrevC said:

Just had a play on the Fiat Configurator for a 500L - chose the TA engine, then looked at the "Technical Details" - these say the camshaft is driven by a toothed belt, which certainly isn't the case with the 85bhp version. I did it very quickly, so may have done something wrong, however the configurator is known for the odd mistake. What's the verdict?

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TrevC said:

Ahmett, the TA doesn't run out of puff as the revs rise - it's the rev limiter built into the ECU that backs it off to protect it. I hit this a few times when I first got my TA as the engine doesn't sound like it's revving that hard (only 1 bang per rev.) then before you know it it has zinged up to around 6000rpm and the "soft" limiter starts working. Don't know why the rev limit is relatively low - ideas, anyone?

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bgunn said:

You can't really generalise in this case; it all depends upon how the engine has been 'tuned'. The TA has been tuned to behave quite like a diesel in that there is a pronounced torque peak lower down.

Physically, an engine produces maximum power when the volumetric efficiency is at it's highest, i.e. it breathes as well as it can and the cylinders are as full as they can be. So there's a natural sweet spot, depending upon inlet manifold design, volume, cylinder head porting, valve timing, lift, exhaust manifold design etc etc at which an engine will 'chime'. Flogging it past this point is counterproductive.

That said, why are you blasting your engine to the limiter always? Unless going for out and out performance (and only with a wider ratio gearbox that gets fitted to road going cars), it's just not necessary.

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bgunn said:

I understand what you're saying - each engine is tuned in a different way for a different response. Saying one engine spinning up to 7000 rpm is automatically 'faster' than one that spins to 5500 is a mistake though, as it depends on more factors than the speed the crankshaft is turning. (Ha, gearing, obviously!)

The reason you tend to 'over rev' an engine with wide gear ratios is to get it to a sweet point of the torque/power curve in the next gear. But that's generally only in a race situation, or when you're wanting to exploit maximum performance from the engine. Whilst I enjoy a spirited drive, I can't think of many occasions on the road where I've needed to do this.

One question I feel bound to ask though, do you drive your car at ten tenths all of the time? You seem to talk about it a lot!

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bgunn said:

As I said in another thread, exercise caution on this. MM will produce the engine management system and design the software, but it will be FPT that actually map it on their own dynos. So effectively, MM are the 'third party' in this; whilst they know how the engine management system works, they may not know the physical limits of the engine.

You would hope that as MM are a subsidiary of FIAT, there would be dialog between FPT and them so the tuning box doesn't cause problems, but I would be careful to look out for it being endorsed by FIAT (or even warranted).

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ahmett said:

With the 1.4 there is no torque down low so you need to go high in the rev range before changing gears in order to not lose out after changing the gear, to stay in the 'sweet spot of the engine'. As a result you sometimes need to take it to 7000 rpm which is in the red line (the red line is the same as other models which means it isn't really the red line fiat was just too cheap to make a speedo with different red lines in their petrol models!!!) but not at the rev limiter. Funnily enough in auto mode if you floor it the computer decides to change gears at 6500 rpm, above the max power spot of 6000 rpm. So I guess going much above 6500 can be counter productive and I don't do it often. I have seen downshifts to about 6600 rpm, the Duallogic box I don't think allows you do downshift to any higher rpm's.

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babbo_umbro said:

I have a Panda 100HP - I agree that it's fun to take it to 7000 revs from time to time but, given a relatively close ratio six-speed box, there's really no need as you want the engine to be near the peak of its torque curve after you've changed gear - something just over 6000 rpm does that - depends on which gear you're in. The main thing to get maximum acceleration is not to over-open the throttle - just open it enough to keep ahead of engine revs and it's noticeably quicker than just opening to the max.

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ahmett said:

Yeah problem is the dualogic only has a 5 speed gearbox!

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babbo_umbro said:

Yes, I can see that would make a difference.

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ahmett said:

The difference between 1st and 2nd gear is hilarious, I mean you have to rev it to 7000 in 1st to get to 4000 in 2nd haha. So much for fuel economy, and to save the tires I rarely go full throttle in 1st up the rev range.

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jrkitching said:

There's quite a big gap between 1st & 2nd on my 1.2 also. I generally hold it in first all the way to 2000 rpm, which puts me at about 1400 in 2nd. Unless going uphill, I'll be out of 2nd by 1800 .

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ahmett said:

haha. not with the 1.4's useless torque down low you aren't = ) i really noticed a big difference with the 1.2's torque down low, a good engine for city driving!

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jrkitching said:

That's exactly why the 1.2 is the engine of choice if you want a true city ecocar .

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ahmett said:

Yes, I am especially impressed that you achieve more mpg from Maybelline than Pearl! The reason why i was getting 6.5l/100 km with the Panda 1.2 courtesy car even in the city was mainly because of the lower weight (less options) and the really skinny 155 tires. I doubt i would get the same with a Fiat 500 1.2 Lounge.

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The Twins said:

It has 3 settings (remote fob) for standard, mild and full power.
Even if I got it I wouldn't have it on 'full' all the time.
It would just be nice to have it in reserve.

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UFI said:

The reason for the 103hp integrated manifold/ cylinder head is to keep the turbo (manifold) cooler as it is now cooled directly by the radiator. This lets them run more boost while maintaining normal turbo temps.

This wouldn't be an issue normally, but a hot turbo can easily be cooked by the S/S since as far as I can tell, there's no S/S parameter that monitors turbo temp.

A lot of people say 85hp is a lot for 875cc, but it's less than 100hp/l and that's with forced induction. It's actually quite pitiful if you consider the 'tech' in the engine (Ford's Eco-Boost manages 123hp/l by comparison).

My theory is that there's actually a 'lot' of headroom built into the TA, my car with less than 500km on the dial, running the A/C all the way up, two people, in the hills, on a 40+ degree day has never reported a coolant temp above 88deg C. Most cars run around 98. Sure coolant is only indication of how stressed the little engine is, but I'd suggest it's 'low'.

I plan on getting a chip as well, the P-Tronic version claims 115hp without increasing boost pressure. I think that claim is optimistic, but if it does manage say 105hp without any extra burden on the turbo, I'd say that's a win.

If I did up the boost, I would switch off S/S and not worry about it, or possibly fit a turbo temp sensor that interfaces with the S/S, it might sound hard, but it could be easily wired into something like the clutch switch to simply defeat S/S when the turbo is hot.

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