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Technical My 62 TwinAir has broken ALREADY

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Technical My 62 TwinAir has broken ALREADY

loveshandbags said:
:yeahthat:

Suitable warranty friendly oil can be got cheaply and JR recently mentioned that ASDA in the UK do the Castrol for around £24 for 4L ?

I posted the information below on a thread the new Panda forum and it would be relevant for ALL European Fiat 500 models. It was an attempt at an exhaustive list of what oils meet the spec.

The Castrol oil referred to by David C that's available in Halfords can be got on ebay including post for £34.

In the manual it states that you should be using a Fiat approval spec of 955535-S2. Having just ACEA C3 5w40 should be good enough.

Building on the suggestions from the previous postings I'm attempted to list all the oils that can be used and where they can be got from. Have listed 10 oils of which 7 meet the Fiat approval spec of 955535-S2.

shop4parts - Selenia ‘K’ Pure Energy 5L
shop4parts - Selenia Star 5L – same as Selenia KPE
Fuchs was the recommended ‘value’ choice from opie oils
Castrol edge
Castrol Edge turbo diesel ignore the name same as the‘Edge’, normally cheaper
Motul 5L
Castrol Magnatec - Meets Fiat approval spec – not too sure about it :confused:

These oils do have NOT have Fiat approval 955535-S2 but meets 5w40 and ACEA C3...

Granville FS-PD 5W/40 from here (ack. to Frupi for finding this)
Comma Syner-D 5w40 Engine Oil from here – can be got in some motor factors…
Only PAO (Class IV) oil that I’ve come across is the Amsoil from here. Might be the best oil but they have not applied for Fiat approval spec. Classified as a boutique oil.


They might be a better choice of top up oils in the 'Petrol' stations in the UK but I have yet to come across a suitable oil for topping here if I go into a garage to re-fuel.

:Offtopic:
Did look up suitable oils for a 911 997 model for in-laws of mine and it seems there's an approved Porsche list of oils that one has to comply with. Stiff debate as to whether a 0w40 or a 5w40 is better. With Fiat it's a lot simpler !
Click to expand...


in the uk i remember them selling shell 5w-40 not c3 at around 18 pounds a liter or so! in Greece they try their luck between 20 and 22 euros for a liter! I've seen quite a lot of castrol around for sale. Found it interesting how BMW M cars use 10w-60 according to the castrol label i saw at a petrol station the other day
 
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ahmett said:
in the uk i remember them selling shell 5w-40 not c3 at around 18 pounds a liter or so! in Greece they try their luck between 20 and 22 euros for a liter! I've seen quite a lot of castrol around for sale. Found it interesting how BMW M cars use 10w-60 according to the castrol label i saw at a petrol station the other day
Click to expand...
:Offtopic:
Did a quick check of the BMW M forums and you were spot on with that one Ahmett (y)
I was expecting a lower viscosity given the emissions focus today but only Castrol seem to use that 'weight'. Unlikely you'll get 4L in Asda for £24. :)
 
Hi Miss Gilly,

Can I ask you when you first noticed this issues, did you have your car in eco mode or did you take this off?

The reason I ask is that it sounds like a similar issue with mine. About a week ago, my car decided to play silly buggers, and as I was driving along it wouldn't let me drive above 3000 rpm, it was very sluggish. My parents in the car at the time said, oh you need more fuel which, I know the orange light was on, but I'd been driving the car for quite some time and know how to judge in comparison with how many miles I could drive with it. Anyway I pulled into the closest station and put £10 into it, then set off again.. the car seemed better for it, but I still had my doubts as you know when something feels it's not quite right.

Yesterday the same thing happened, but this time as I was driving towards the local supermarket. It juddered when i turned off eco mode (almost that kangarooing effect, when you're learning to drive) and then it was like a light show - orange engine light came on, my warning light and stop/start ultimately failed. I continued to drive to where I was going. Turned it off and then came back and everything seemed to be fine. But I know there's an issue somewhere - do you think this is it?
 
Mine has just started misbehaving - at 3500rpm in third it kangaroos and three lights pop up, together with the stop start unavailable message.

Reading through the forum suggests to me I have a coil pack issue. Sadly my local dealer says they can't see me until the end of next week which I think is a disgrace considering the car is under warranty and you would have thought making a customer happy would be important. Ho hum.

My dealer had also never heard of a recall for coils and in fact tried to tell me that coils don't usually wear out. They added that if it is the coils they will find it on a diagnostic (which I Have to pay for) and they will then order some in. which takes 48 hours...

Fiat customer services also didn't know about the coils recall but did kindly tell me about another recall I should have had but nobody thought to tell me.

Eventually after trying five dealers, I found one in Bexleyheath who knew about the coils and were only too happy to see me Friday. Dealers do seem to be a bit hit and miss in my experience, but I have had better service from Bexleyheath in one phone call than I have had in 2 years from my local. So hopefully the wee thing will be nice and spritely again on Friday.

It's not the failure that's a problem - this sort of thing is common to many makes and not really Fiats fault (parts are supplied by third parties) but the attitude of some of the dealers is terribly patronising and unhelpful.
 
Firstly, I am very sorry to hear about your car troubles :(

I am a twinair owner also (61 plate) and I have had nothing but problems with mine in the two years I have owned it! Everything from door handles falling off, 3 recalls, overheating and loss of power, lumpy running (ridiculously so), oil running out and no oil light warning coming on.

It is in the garage as I type this having over £600 worth of parts fitted that the dealer initially told me weren't covered by warranty. A male friend then rang them on my behalf and they decided that they were covered and would replace them and give me a full valet (how very kind!!).

I absolutely adore my twinair but I am seriously thinking that once repaired I am going to sell it and buy something NOT Fiat :( I am gutted but I am literally in the garage twice per month having various things done!!!
 
zanes said:
Could you just clarify exactly what you mean by this bit?
Click to expand...

Hey Zanes,

Basically my car broke down to the point of recovery to the garage (was completely dead, wouldn't start etc) and they diagnosed this as being because the oil had run dry!! No oil light came on at any point (other than when initially inserting the key in the ignition and EVERY light comes on).

They have just called me regarding the repairs it is in for today and said that only 3wks after the oil being filled up it is practically empty again and yet again - no oil light coming on!

I questioned the garage to which they replied "that's a very good question" - looks like more investigations and repairs :bang:
 
Sorry to hear of all the troubles you've had with your TA.

Oil needs to be checked regularly using the dipstick; every time you refuel would be good, though I'll grant you most owners aren't that vigilant.

The 500 does not have a low oil level warning; only a low oil pressure warning, and that isn't intended to replace the need for a regular visual level check. If you leave it until the low oil pressure warning light illuminates, your engine will likely already be wrecked. On a turbocharged car like the TA, this paragraph probably should be in capital letters.

ErynsMum said:
overheating... oil running out... broke down to the point of recovery to the garage ... because the oil had run dry!
Click to expand...

In view of this and the other posts you have made recently then

ErynsMum said:
I am seriously thinking that once repaired I am going to sell it
Click to expand...

would most likely be a good idea. Unless Fiat fit a complete new engine & turbo (which somehow I think is not going to happen), then the likelihood of serious engine problems going forward is just too great to risk keeping the car past the end of its warranty.

Just don't expect anyone who knows anything about cars to touch it with a bargepole.

Fortunately that won't stop most salesfolk happily accepting it in part exchange.
 
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jrkitching said:
Sorry to hear of all the troubles you've had with your TA.

Oil needs to be checked regularly using the dipstick; every time you refuel would be good, though I'll grant you most owners aren't that vigilant.

The 500 does not have a low oil level warning; only a low oil pressure warning, and that isn't intended to replace the need for a regular visual level check. If you leave it until the low oil pressure warning light illuminates, your engine will likely already be wrecked. On a turbocharged car like the TA, this paragraph probably should be in capital letters.



In view of this and the other posts you have made recently then



would most likely be a good idea. Unless Fiat fit a complete new engine & turbo (which somehow I think is not going to happen), then the likelihood of serious engine problems going forward is just too great to risk keeping the car past the end of its warranty.

Just don't expect anyone who knows anything about cars to touch it with a bargepole.

Fortunately that won't stop most salesfolk happily accepting it in part exchange.
Click to expand...

I had absolutely no idea about this :cry:
 
ErynsMum said:
I had absolutely no idea about this :cry:
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, JRKitching is right on the money here- the oil warning light is an "oil pressure has dropped to zero" light (so, for instance, there's virtually no oil or the oil pump that pushes the oil around the engine has failed); in that situation the engine will be very quickly ruined unless you're lucky and catch it quickly at idle.

Any engine gradually uses oil (a little gets burnt off in regular use) so it's important to check the level.

By the sounds of it your engine is a write off internally- massive internal damage has probably occured and this is now why it doesn't hold oil; bearings and piston (rings) are now very loose and oil gets past them and is burnt off.

The twinair uses oil to move its valves (that let fuel and air into the engine) so a lack of oil will mean it can't move them properly hence the lumpy running and eventual non-starting.

And, for really bad news, FIAT would be well within their rights to refuse to cover the damage.

However: The fact that the twinair uses oil to move it's valves might just have saved the day to an extent; the valves are at the top of the engine so I would have thought that there would still be some oil in there when it stopped being able to move them; this might have saved some of the lower engine parts but I would still expect to see heavy damage.

Also it might be possible for them to show that the oil has gone for other reasons, and in that case they might cover it.

It really can't be stressed enough (and I'm too slack with this myself, only checking every 1500-2000 miles, so it's not just you) that it is critical to check oil levels, especially on a new engine whilst you figure out how much it likes to use. This is the kick up the arse I probably needed. My excuse is I like to check it when the engine is fully cold and has been stood to get an accurate reading, but as JR says when filling at least tells you of any major problems.
 
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zanes said:
...but as JR says when filling at least tells you of any major problems.
Click to expand...

It's a good routine to get into, and there are a number of advantages:

Garage forecourts are usually on level ground

There's frequently a canopy to shelter you from the weather

If it's nighttime, there'll be some lighting

You can normally help yourself to free disposable gloves & a wipe

There'll likely be a convenient litter bin to drop said gloves and wipe in after use.
 
Hi folks. I'd like to take the opportunity to share my experience of my 2012 Twin Air. My Twin Air has done nearly 33,000 miles. I've had it since new and it has been the most reliable, fun new car I've had.
Up until the last few months the only issue I had was after it's first and only service thus far (18,000 mile service intervals) when the dealer 'forgot' to bolt the air filter housing back on to the front of the car meaning I had to go to a local dealer when I was on holiday to get it fixed back on. However this was a problem made by the dealer not the car.
I posted on this thread because as you might have seen above I said 'until the last few months'.
A couple of months ago when starting the car in the early morning my engine light came on and said 'start stop not available'. Frightened of breaking it I made alternative arrangements to get to work and my missus took my car into the dealer. They couldn't find a problem logged (which was weird, surely the system should log anything untoward if it's showing you it has a problem'. The light went off and the start stop was operational back from the dealer.
Regardless I took it back to the dealer for further investigation and the dealer flagged up that the system had reported a misfire. The car had been running rough when cold, the idle speed kept dipping about 500 rpm before springing back up again, but I thought that perhaps being a different type of engine it was supposed to do that. I let them know about the idling issue and a while later they stated the car needed a new coil pack which should solve both issues.
I took it in today for repair under the third year dealer warranty so I wait now for the car to get cold to test it. I took it for the repair and the engine was warm when it underwent the repair so they couldn't test it when cold as I was waiting in the dealership whilst the repair was undertaken.
What I find interesting is that this thread says that the coil pack on my car were known to be susceptible to faults, yet nobody had the decency to tell me of this at the dealership throughout the whole process.
Although happy with my twin air I will be waving goodbye to my lil car and have ordered a Dacia Sandero Stepway with a free 5 year warranty for the same price I paid for my twin air three years ago. Like someone on this thread said, I view it too much a risk to keep past three years when the warranty expires.
As I said though the Twin Air has been truly an excellent car and I've loved it.
 
nastynobby said:
Hi folks. I'd like to take the opportunity to share my experience of my 2012 Twin Air. My Twin Air has done nearly 33,000 miles. I've had it since new and it has been the most reliable, fun new car I've had.
Up until the last few months the only issue I had was after it's first and only service thus far (18,000 mile service intervals) when the dealer 'forgot' to bolt the air filter housing back on to the front of the car meaning I had to go to a local dealer when I was on holiday to get it fixed back on. However this was a problem made by the dealer not the car.
I posted on this thread because as you might have seen above I said 'until the last few months'.
A couple of months ago when starting the car in the early morning my engine light came on and said 'start stop not available'. Frightened of breaking it I made alternative arrangements to get to work and my missus took my car into the dealer. They couldn't find a problem logged (which was weird, surely the system should log anything untoward if it's showing you it has a problem'. The light went off and the start stop was operational back from the dealer.
Regardless I took it back to the dealer for further investigation and the dealer flagged up that the system had reported a misfire. The car had been running rough when cold, the idle speed kept dipping about 500 rpm before springing back up again, but I thought that perhaps being a different type of engine it was supposed to do that. I let them know about the idling issue and a while later they stated the car needed a new coil pack which should solve both issues.
I took it in today for repair under the third year dealer warranty so I wait now for the car to get cold to test it. I took it for the repair and the engine was warm when it underwent the repair so they couldn't test it when cold as I was waiting in the dealership whilst the repair was undertaken.
What I find interesting is that this thread says that the coil pack on my car were known to be susceptible to faults, yet nobody had the decency to tell me of this at the dealership throughout the whole process.
Although happy with my twin air I will be waving goodbye to my lil car and have ordered a Dacia Sandero Stepway with a free 5 year warranty for the same price I paid for my twin air three years ago. Like someone on this thread said, I view it too much a risk to keep past three years when the warranty expires.
As I said though the Twin Air has been truly an excellent car and I've loved it.
Click to expand...
from my own experience, i agree with you. Fiat's warranty is more than a joke, and while the car isn't particularly unreliable as it gets older it starts becoming a liability with unexpected bills.
 
Surely after three years there is a trade off between depreciation and maintenance costs. Funny how depreciation is totally accepted but maintenance costs scare people! And yes of course I know that even three year old cars depreciate.
 
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babyferrari said:
Surely after three years there is a trade off between depreciation and maintenance costs. Funny how depreciation is totally accepted but maintenance costs scare people! And yes of course I know that even three year old cars depreciate.
Click to expand...

Same, my car will need a cambelt, water pump, 4 tyres, exhaust backbox and a service or two. It's just the nature of owning a car and I accept that.
 
babyferrari said:
Surely after three years there is a trade off between depreciation and maintenance costs. Funny how depreciation is totally accepted but maintenance costs scare people! And yes of course I know that even three year old cars depreciate.
Click to expand...


Agreed.
You have a three year old 500, just coming to end of warranty. It's worth 5k trade in, if you're lucky.
It's generally been reliable, it might run another 2 years with perhaps just some brakes and tyres, cambelt maybe, cheap enough.
You then consider spending another 5.7k on a new one, at the top end that's pushing 2k a year for repairs, IF needed. Not including your lost interest on the extra amount.
If I like a car, I keep it, and fix it when necessary.
Post year 3 depreciation is probably half the first 3 years.
So unless you have niggly electronic faults, which can be a royal pita, and then prudent to get shut, I figure it's best to keep what you have.
 
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