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Old 05-07-2012   #1
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Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

Just taken delivery of TA Lounge with Dualogic and specifically ordered with ESP to ensure the hill hold facility. Not convinced how well it is holding when you stop on hill in auto (at least compared to our VW Golf.
1. Is the hill hold something that has to be specifically turned on.
2. How can I tell that the ESP has been factory fitted as not sure there is anything to show?

thanks
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Old 05-07-2012   #2
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

If you have a button on the dash that says asr then you've got esp. The button switches the traction control off.
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Old 05-07-2012   #3
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Thumbs up Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

Thanks for prompt response. I do have ASR (hence ESP) button but was unsure if that was standard as the paper manual does not seem to have been updated. I have not yet worked out how to use CD without installing Adobe Acrobat (use NitroPDF) which is huge, resource hog for running updates as well as not being very secure or stable.
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Old 05-07-2012   #4
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

Quote Originally Posted by GoGas View Post
I have not yet worked out how to use CD without installing Adobe Acrobat (use NitroPDF) which is huge, resource hog for running updates as well as not being very secure or stable.
Erm, the reader is only a c50MB installation file ...

Never had any issues personally, you must be running a lowly specced machine!
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Old 06-07-2012   #5
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

well, the dualogic hill-hold is not a real hill-hold : the FIat 500 will hold for around 1 sec to let you move your foot from brake pedal to throttle. After that 1 sec, you will start rolling back if you just lift off the brake and not press on the throttle.

A true hill-hold (as in e.g. Audi DSG) will hold indefinitely on a slope.
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Old 06-07-2012   #6
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

sswcheung many thanks for your clear explanation which is very relevant as our other car is an Audi/VW DSG which as you say behaves differently.
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Old 06-07-2012   #7
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

Quote Originally Posted by sswcheung View Post
well, the dualogic hill-hold is not a real hill-hold : the FIat 500 will hold for around 1 sec to let you move your foot from brake pedal to throttle. After that 1 sec, you will start rolling back if you just lift off the brake and not press on the throttle.

A true hill-hold (as in e.g. Audi DSG) will hold indefinitely on a slope.
No it won't. A conventional automatic will, but any car with 'hill holder' will only be for a few seconds, which is how is should be really. Shouldn't be sitting on a hill in any car without the use of a brake.
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Old 06-07-2012   #8
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

Quote Originally Posted by sswcheung View Post
well, the dualogic hill-hold is not a real hill-hold : the FIat 500 will hold for around 1 sec to let you move your foot from brake pedal to throttle. After that 1 sec, you will start rolling back if you just lift off the brake and not press on the throttle.

A true hill-hold (as in e.g. Audi DSG) will hold indefinitely on a slope.
Firstly, a what's a 'real' hill holder? You mean an electronically controlled handbrake - and you really don't want to find out the cost of the calipers/motors in VAG cars.

Fiat's hill holder works for more than one second (IIRC it's 2, and then will release, and then re-apply after half a second, and cycle if the slewing sensor still thinks you're on a hill), and it works through the ESP, i.e. the high pressure pump in the ESP unit pressurises all of the brakes (so it's applied to all four wheels). It's not meant to hold the car indefinitely, it's to allow you to safely switch the foot from brake to throttle without rolling back. It's a very easy thing to implement as it's just a software addition on the existing ESP system, so quite sensible really.
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Old 10-03-2013   #9
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

I must say I can understand the op's confusion, I have this fitted and have never once noticed it stop me rolling back, I am used to a normal auto that allows you to roll to a stop at a junction on a hill and to move from brake to gas smoothly without rolling back.

Does it perhaps not work in conjunction with start and stop, do I have to lose this function to actuate hill start?
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Old 10-03-2013   #10
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

Quote Originally Posted by Seagull View Post
I am used to a normal auto that allows you to roll to a stop at a junction on a hill and to move from brake to gas smoothly without rolling back.
It's not a normal auto - but then again, it doesn't have the fuel economy penalty of a normal auto, either.
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Old 10-03-2013   #11
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
It's not a normal auto - but then again, it doesn't have the fuel economy penalty of a normal auto, either.
I'm not knocking it, I quite like my robot gear shifter, just wondering if there is a hidden option to activate something I'm supposed to have
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Old 10-03-2013   #12
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

As OP, after 6 months my view has not changed. The hill hold function is not really what many will be used to compared to VW/Audi DSG in our Golf. I seems only effective for a few seconds and only when the hill is noticeable ( not sure if I read 3-4 degrees somewhere ) And it is often on gentle slopes people will be used to it in other cars. Even in hilly Sheffield to all intents and purposes we now assume it does not exisit and drive accordingly.
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Old 10-03-2013   #13
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

Hill hold is exactly what it says on the tin really. Hold the car when it would roll back enough to cause an issue when moving from brake to gas. In all honesty though hill hold promotes poor driving IMO. The number of people sitting on the foot brake in traffic when they should be releasing it and applying the hand brake. It's clearly stated in the highway that you should be doing this to prevent dazzle to drivers behind you in traffic
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Old 10-03-2013   #14
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
Hill hold is exactly what it says on the tin really. Hold the car when it would roll back enough to cause an issue when moving from brake to gas. In all honesty though hill hold promotes poor driving IMO. The number of people sitting on the foot brake in traffic when they should be releasing it and applying the hand brake. It's clearly stated in the highway that you should be doing this to prevent dazzle to drivers behind you in traffic
I remember reading the highway code one day before the theory! You can hear a slight hissing noise when the hill holder is active and a slightly different brake feel. If you have these symptoms it means you wont roll back in the few moments before pressing the accelerator!
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Old 10-03-2013   #15
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Re: Dualogic, hill hold & how to tell if ESP is fitted?

You shouldn't hear a hissing, I don't on mine, although if you release the brake and go to reapply it, it will remain solid as though the engine is off and servo assist has been exhausted, and when released it'll enable full pedal travel again.
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