Technical Twinair engine oil ...when is an oil not the correct oil ?

[iangray100]

Guys,

We just took delivery of our new Twinair on the 1st March and I was doing some digging on Engine oils for the car, as I will be draining it when we reach 500miles ( contra to Fiat 18,000 first change ;-) as the best maintenance you can do for any engine is replace the oil regularly and not stretch it out the max possible miles . On going, I will be replacing the oil every 6 months which I do to all my cars.

FIAT Twinair oil Filter part number is : 55224598 . £19.22
- ( Fiat charge far too much to be honest as it’s only a paper filter …my BMW X3 only costs £10 for its filter and its pretty much the same filter as the Fiat !!!)

Twinair Engine Oil spec is 5W-40 C3, Fiat Spec [FONT=&quot]9.55535-S2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

So where can you buy the correct “Twinair” oil at the best price …online or in the high street?


Yes you can buy the branded oil from Fiat at their inflated prices but if your canny you can buy the correct oil that has been labelled up “as a marketing ploy” to extract more money from us, that not many of us has noticed is in fact the correct Twinair Engine oil and is available in Halfords and its called Castrol Edge 5W-40 “Diesel” !!!

This is 100% a marketing ploy by Castrol and confirmed by Castrol’s Main online reseller : www.opieoils.co.uk see the link below

Quote "Called TD as it meets some good diesel specs, but very suitable for petrols too. Don’t be put off by the marketing!"

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-719-cas...-fst-5w-40-advanced-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx


If you also check out the Fiat specification ([FONT=&quot]9.55535-S2 ) [/FONT]its actually a Diesel and Petrol qualification

Quote : “[FONT=&quot]Fiat 9.55535-S2: Qualification for Diesel and gasoline engine, with exhaust treatment system, lubricants, with extended drain. OEM recommended product also meets: ACEA C3-04, MB 229.51 and API: SM/CF. “[/FONT]

If you check out the Castrol Datasheets for the Castrol Edge range of oils that support this C3 , [FONT=&quot]9.55535-S2[/FONT] specification

Petrol Edge 5W-40 conforms to [FONT=&quot]9.55535-S2[/FONT]
&
Diesel Edge 5W-40 conforms to [FONT=&quot]9.55535-S2[/FONT]

You will see its actual the same datesheet !!!!, there is only one sheet on the site for these two oils !!!!

http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/Fus...FDA28802578DA00609C90/$file/BPXE-8K8K8T_0.pdf

Datsheet Quote :

[FONT=&quot]Application[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Castrol EDGE 5W-40 is suitable for use in automotive gasoline and diesel engines where the manufacturer recommends an ACEA A3/B3,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A3/B4, C3, API SN/CF or earlier specification 5W-40 lubricant.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Castrol EDGE 5W-40 is approved by leading automobile manufacturers, please refer to the specifications section and your owner's handbook.[/FONT]

Which has carefully been written to say it supports both engine types and so does the label on back of the CAN ….this oil can support other engine types !!! but on the front it “markets Diesel” !! a PLOY !!!

Local Availability:

Petrol Edge 5W-40 = £44.99 ..not available in Halfords at all ( only online or other motor factors)
&
Diesel Edge 5W-40 = £40.99.. available in all Halfords


So which oil would you buy ..the oil that is technically the same that costs £4.99 more, or the same oil that is cheaper !!!

With a Halfords trade card , Castrol Diesel Edge 5W-40 = £32!!

So with a bit of detective work I have uncovered a marketing ploy , were you can save £4.99 at least and more importantly buy the correct oil for the Twinair locally.

I purchased a can and will be using it shortly …..

 

[bgunn]

Personally, I wouldn't change the oil so early - don't forget you want a controlled amount of wear on the rings and bores to help them bed in and ensure a good seal; filling with fresh synthetic oil so early on isn't going to help this.

I'm giving my TA it's first oil change at 3000 miles, having given the engine a good few higher speed runs, as well as plenty of load changes after a reasonably gentle initial running in period.

 

[frupi]

You might want to get busy with some of this.

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/291566-oil-my-fiat.html

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/294636-1-2-fire-engine-500-2010-oil-grade-best-source.html

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/290601-twinair-oil-min-max.html

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/286912-oil-change.html

 

[iangray100]

Thanks for the comments and yes I agree you do need to bed the rings etc in, but you also need the get the rubbish, if any out .
Having raced and built many engines over the years ~Porsche ones included, a lot of this is all down to personal preference and past experiences.

Technically you wouldn't want to use a Fully Synthetic oil for running in, but engineering tolerances and oils have moved on to allow all this to work and for drive long service lengths. All to keep the running costs down..just because a manufacture says something doesn't mean you have to follow it as they have competitors to keep up with and customers to sell cars to that have less money.

The market has changed and Car these day mechanical die before they rust away …..


It will 500 miles for me....

 

[frupi]

Just as a matter of interest, have you, are you or would you consider discussing changing the oil in your new TA at 500 miles with your dealer? Their immediate reaction might be 'Why?'

I appreciate (I'm assuming) you are going to change the oil and filter yourself, but I would be inclined to agree with other forum members, that changing your oil at such a low mileage is without doubt, unnecessary. Your car will have fully synthetic oil in it from new anyway and you will be refilling it with fully synthetic oil I assume? I just can't see that there will be too much in the way of 'rubbish' in the oil in the first few hundred miles. If I for instance knew I might cover 12k in the first year, I would probably change the oil at 6k, but that's just my quirk! I certainly would never do 18k on a single oil change. I would imagine at that mileage, the oil would be incredibly tired and inefficient.

I don't have a TA, just a humble 1.2 POP, but its just had it's first service on a low mileage service plan with an oil and filter change only, at 4100 miles without any problems. Changing the oil at that mileage in my opinion, is far more realistic and has allowed for some bedding in of the engine.

I'm not criticising your decision, it is after all your own personal choice, I just can't see the benefit as well as the needless expense (albeit not a huge one).

 

[loveshandbags]

Thanks for the comments and yes I agree you do need to bed the rings etc in, but you also need the get the rubbish, if any out .
Having raced and built many engines over the years ~Porsche ones included, a lot of this is all down to personal preference and past experiences.

Technically you wouldn't want to use a Fully Synthetic oil for running in, but engineering tolerances and oils have moved on to allow all this to work and for drive long service lengths. All to keep the running costs down..just because a manufacture says something doesn't mean you have to follow it as they have competitors to keep up with and customers to sell cars to that have less money.

The market has changed and Car these day mechanical die before they rust away …..


It will 500 miles for me....

On 'older' engines I used to run on semi-synthetic initially and then switch to full synthetic. Some have taken a chance on the older FIRE engines but with the multi-air engines and in particular the TA you would have to stick with the recommended 5w40 ACEA C3. If I had a TA I would probably follow bgunn's recommendation given his background & experience. Interesting exercise on the Castrol oils but at our local Halfords they only stock the bigger quantity in the cheaper turbo diesel container but it's priced at €50.
Here is a reckoner from opie where you can put in the make of any car...
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-861-car-engine-oils.aspx
No TA model so I plugged in the 1.2 as an example (for some strange reason it lists 5w30 which is definitely not recommended for a TA )
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/product-f...009/500/PETROL/500/8745/product-finder-2.aspx

 

[306maxi]

Personally, I wouldn't change the oil so early - don't forget you want a controlled amount of wear on the rings and bores to help them bed in and ensure a good seal; filling with fresh synthetic oil so early on isn't going to help this.

I'm giving my TA it's first oil change at 3000 miles, having given the engine a good few higher speed runs, as well as plenty of load changes after a reasonably gentle initial running in period.

I agree, I would change at 3k miles rather than 500 for sure. The engine in my 500 was only just beginning to loosen up at 3k miles and didn't really finish opening up till at least 10k miles...

 

[ahmett]

Guys i am no mechanic but wouldnt refilling the oil every 3000 km mean that the engine always ahs some new oil in it? Does the filter get that clogged up to change so often, making fiat look ridiculous for saying 30,000 km /12 months change oil filter and oil?

It seems to me there is no exact science as one guy told me 10,000 km, the other 15,000 km and my mechanic friend yeah if its long life oil 30,000 km if you do that much in a year is ok just make sure you fill it up and check the levels.

I just go with the book at 30,000 km, meaning the same time as the spark plugs and i do everything at same time, filter, fluid, oil, plugs, etc. I am sure if my engine dies one of you will love to tell me -
i told you so!

 

[jrkitching]

Guys i am no mechanic but wouldnt refilling the oil every 3000 km mean that the engine always ahs some new oil in it?

That's not the whole story, Ahmett. Oil is changed for lots of reasons; because the polymer chains are chopped up by the mechanical action of the engine, because the additives degrade and because the oil gets contaminated with the by-products of combustion which get past the piston rings. Synthetic oils have better polymer chain breakdown resistance (that's a property of the base oil), and modern additives offer better protection for longer, but none of these advances prevent the gradual buildup of contaminants - the only way to remove them is to change the oil and filter. And think on this - if you change the oil twice as frequently, on average, the engine is running with only a quarter of the contamination it would otherwise have to endure.

 

[iangray100]

100% agree jrkitching

 

[nemchenk]

Also: https://www.fiatforum.com/500/291805-twinair-oil-filter-change.html

I'm going to change the oil in mine this weekend, weather permitting... Just coming up to 3000 miles.

 

[frupi]

Also: https://www.fiatforum.com/500/291805-twinair-oil-filter-change.html

I'm going to change the oil in mine this weekend, weather permitting... Just coming up to 3000 miles.

As a matter of interest, how long have you had the car? Only asking 'cause it took a whole year for ours to achieve 4100 miles!

 

[nemchenk]

I'm doing about 200 miles per week Commuting 4 days per week, round trip is about 60 miles. So -- I've put 3000 on the clock since Xmas

My poor Nipster!

 

[TrevC]

When I bought my TA the dealer suggested that I had the first oil change after 1 year, so I've just had that done (at 10500 miles). I'll have the dealer do the 18000 service, but probably change the oil myself between these services.

Since the forthcoming Haynes manual won't cover the TA, I need some guidance. I think I can see the filter housing behind the engine - it's dome shaped with a hexagonal top and a torque figure on it - is this it?

Also, will I need a washer for the sump plug? If so what size?

Perhaps Ian can give us a quick narrative (and pics) when he's carried out his change?

 

[frupi]

I'm doing about 200 miles per week Commuting 4 days per week, round trip is about 60 miles. So -- I've put 3000 on the clock since Xmas

My poor Nipster!

Yep, changing your oil at 3000 seems perfectly reasonable to me, though I admit, I would probably have waited 'til it'd done 6k if I was doing a similar mileage to you in the same sort of time frame. Looks like you'll easily knock up 12k in the first year of motoring. Two oil changes per year at your estimated mileage would be perfectly adequate, anymore would be overkill imo.

 

[jrkitching]

Also: https://www.fiatforum.com/500/291805-twinair-oil-filter-change.html

I'm going to change the oil in mine this weekend, weather permitting... Just coming up to 3000 miles.

.

 

[loveshandbags]

Guys i am no mechanic but wouldnt refilling the oil every 3000 km mean that the engine always ahs some new oil in it? Does the filter get that clogged up to change so often, making fiat look ridiculous for saying 30,000 km /12 months change oil filter and oil?

It seems to me there is no exact science as one guy told me 10,000 km, the other 15,000 km and my mechanic friend yeah if its long life oil 30,000 km if you do that much in a year is ok just make sure you fill it up and check the levels.

I just go with the book at 30,000 km, meaning the same time as the spark plugs and i do everything at same time, filter, fluid, oil, plugs, etc. I am sure if my engine dies one of you will love to tell me -
i told you so!

When I saw this post I thought of 'Groundhog day'. (hopefully ahmett you haven't taken any offence by it).
Remember it is in the interests of the car manufacturer for your engine not to last so that you keep going back in every 3/4 years to get a new one (I might be a little OT here)
Once you are out of the 'safety net' of your warranty you wouldn't be thinking about did I stick to the manufacturer's schedule. Recently noticed an independent advertising Alfa car servicing and they had 2 schedules - one was the standard one & the other was premium. The premium had oil flushing (it reminded me of an older thread ) but it did the brake fluid change, tigher timeline on cambelt change and more oil changes.
The 18K miles service interval is to make the cost of ownership figures look good and a lot of hire & companies look at these figures.
The problem with getting some many inputs is that you end up with information overload and you end up with a 'cope out' of just adding new oil to oil that is contaminated and has engine 'shavings' in it.
The long life oil that you referred is not available in the correct spec for the 500 and needs a 'special' filter and mobile only guarantee it for 15K miles - which is less than the Fiat oil service schedule.
Lastly, if you look at the Fiat service manual where you get the 'stamps' there are 2 'tick boxs' - one for a service & the other for an 'oil change'. :idea:

 

[jwest87671]

I purchased a Sport from a dealer that had changed the oil before delivery to me. Do not know what type or weight they used. Do I need to worry about engine damage until next oil change, another thousand miles? Car is a 2015 1.4 Sport. It appears from these posts oil type and weight is critical.
Thank you.

 

[jrkitching]

I purchased a Sport from a dealer that had changed the oil before delivery to me. Do not know what type or weight they used. Do I need to worry about engine damage until next oil change, another thousand miles? Car is a 2015 1.4 Sport. It appears from these posts oil type and weight is critical.
Thank you.

It is critical for the Twinair engine because correct valve operation depends on having the correct viscosity vs temperature performance of the oil. This can vary across oils of different brands, even if they have the same nominal specification, which is why some Twinair owners choose to only use the exact Selenia oil specified for their engine.

However, your car does not have a Twinair engine, so these comments do not apply to you.

Just have it serviced at the recommended intervals using whatever type and grade of oil is specified for your engine - the details will be in your handbook. You can safely use any reputable brand of oil, provided it meets the required specification.

 

[varesecrazy]

It is critical for the Twinair engine because correct valve operation depends on having the correct viscosity vs temperature performance of the oil. This can vary across oils of different brands, even if they have the same nominal specification, which is why some Twinair owners choose to only use the exact Selenia oil specified for their engine.

However, your car does not have a Twinair engine, so these comments do not apply to you.

Just have it serviced at the recommended intervals using whatever type and grade of oil is specified for your engine - the details will be in your handbook. You can safely use any reputable brand of oil, provided it meets the required specification.

Its a 1.4multiair.. jwest87671

So yes ask the garage which grade oil ( and ideally the brand)

The oil in these motors performs more than just 'lubrication'

I will link to a modern thread..

Covers a few topics..

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-usa/480595-fiat-500-burning-rubber-smell-oil-leak-3.html