Technical 1.2 FIRE engine 500 2010 oil grade? Best source?

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Technical 1.2 FIRE engine 500 2010 oil grade? Best source?

I use ECP Tripple QX about £25 for 5l or shell or the cheapest right grade not had an issue over 40 years of using cheaper oils.
I noted something recently changed the oil on our Fiat as it was due, for some time the engine has sounded a "bit tappy " put 3.1l of Tripple QX oil and new Bosch filter and the tappy sound has gone, makes me think once it sounds this way regardless then it's due for a change?
Having been brought up on Honda's the recommended interval was as short as 12 weeks!
 
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not had an issue over 40 years of using cheaper oils

I'd say this is a reasonable approach on an unstressed engine like the 1.2 FIRE; barring faults like running with insufficient coolant, then given regular changes with any half decent oil, I'd expect to see 200k without issues.

On more modern engines with hydraulic valve gear, I'd spend a little extra on something better.

Having been brought up on Honda's the recommended interval was as short as 12 weeks!

Quite a few 1950's cars have a 1000 mile oil change interval.
 
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Change the oil and filter every year, it'll live longer that way.

I'd agree with this; a less expensive oil changed annually will likely give you better engine protection than a top of the range oil changed every two years. I'd also advise not pennypinching on the filter; use either an OEM one, or a decent aftermarket one like MANN.

Changing the oil & filter on a 1.2 is straightforward, so there's no good reason for those doing it themselves not to do it annually.

IMO the extended intervals are there primarily to reduce first owner service costs (franchised dealers often charge over £100+VAT for a basic oil & filter change), thereby making the car more attractive to the initial purchaser. The manufacturer only needs to be reasonably sure the service regime is sufficient to prevent engine failure during the warranty period.
 
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Went to change the oil today in our 2009 1.2, all good except the new oil filter was slightly different in appearance both Bosch, both fit, I couldn't risk it so went to Fiat(only a mile away) for a genuine one, the correct one(on the left in the pic) has the flat wide sealing ring(correct Bosch part number in other pic) the "wrong" one has the round sealing ring and is about 3mm narrower in the body, they may be interchangeable but I don't know?
 

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I'd have more faith in Bosch than fiat for seals ;)
 
The Bosch one looks wrong. For a 1.2, I make it you need a 026 407 001?


Ralf S.
This is my problem I think(it's in the bin) the one you quote is the one I had with the narrow seal, but the one that came off that's been fine for over a year is the other pic ending 041 and is the same in appearance as the genuine Fiat item so Im still not sure which is correct as they both fit
 
Im still not sure which is correct as they both fit
In practice you can use either; as long as the thread is the same and the seal seats fully against the mating flange on the block (the flange is wide enough to accommodate both types), all will be well. I suppose you could potentially have a problem fitting a larger seal if a smaller one has been fitted and the flange on the block has corroded, but this is unlikely and I've never seen this.

The practical difference is that the total oil capacity is about 100ml greater with the larger filter. The spec changed to the smaller filter over the production run, saving 100ml of oil over the number of cars Fiat produce is what modern day production engineering is about.

Just be aware that the correct functioning of the anti drainback valve is important in protecting the engine during a cold start, so use a decent brand of filter.
 
Sorry for coming late to this one but I would support jrk above when he says either will fit. Some time ago my factor offered me a very good deal on oil filters for my boy's 2012 1.4 Punto 8 valve (F.I.R.E.) so, as they were Bosch, I bought 4 of them. Didn't take long to realize they were identical to the Panda filter only a little longer than the one at that time fitted to it. I found the longer Punto filter had the same thread and seating diameter with, what looked like, the same bypass valve in the bottom of the case, so decided to just use it. With all the FIRE engines being so similar I reasoned the blow off pressure would be the same for a 1.2 Panda and 1.4 8 valve Punto? Clearance to the exhaust, because the filter is longer, makes removal and fitting slightly more difficult and I was slightly worried that there might be greater heat transfer to the filter body. However once screwed fully home there's a goodly air gap and it's been fine. I cut the first one open to see if any signs of burnt deposits were evident in the bottom of the case but it was clean as a whistle. I like the increased element area with the bigger filter too and always half fill the new filter with oil before fitting - Can't completely fill it due to it being a horizontal fitment but even half filling cuts down very considerably on the time she takes to build pressure on start up after an oil change. The seals are different, some square section and some rounded, but hey both seem to do the job just fine. As long as it matches the sealing face on the engine diameter wise I think that's all that matters

On a subject related to this, How many of you prime oil filters? (assuming it's possible to do so). I was taught to do this wherever possible but have seen a number of argument of late as to why you shouldn't - mostly based around the fact that you are filling oil into the filter body on the "engine side" of the element so there is a danger of contaminant being introduced directly to the oil galleries - Last time I changed the Ibiza's oil I I decide to fit the filter dry, mainly because it's a, in my view, ridiculously, small filter (smaller than the small option for our FIRE engines) and being a horizontal fitment, you can't get much oil into it before it all spills out again as you fit it! Being a modern "smart" car she doesn't have a conventional oil warning light. When you switch the ignition on she does a bulb test but then extinguishes all the warning lights, including the wee oil can. Apparently the ECU is monitoring oil pressure and it if "sees" low pressure for longer than a certain time it then lights the oil can light. I hate this because you can't watch for the oil light going out on start up to confirm oil pressure being established. Anyway, on previous occasions, when I've filled the new filter as much as I can before fitting, the oil can light has stayed off. This time though, with the empty filter fitted, she must have taken too long to build pressure because she lit the light and I had to cancel the triggered fault code to get the light off. GRRRRR. I'll be filling all filters as best I can from now on.

Although the oil light on this car can't be used to monitor oil pressure being there, I've noticed the hydraulic tappets rattle way merrily on start up and go quiet as soon as the pressure comes up so actually you can listen for this to confirm the pressure is there - But I'd much rather see the oil light like the Panda.
 
Agreed about the filter... you can't go wrong with the biggest one that will fit.

The only "treatment" I give the filter is to stick a bobble hat on it during the cold months, to help it warm up and retain oil temperature (my cars all have a heat exchanger with the coolant, so overheating the oil would be quite difficult to achieve). If you have a favourite auntie who likes to crochet, get her to make you one... ☺️ then hold it on with a cable tie.

I've never primed an oil filter. I just start the engine and let it idle until the oil pressure light goes out, give it a mild blip or two of revs, then turn it off for a cup of tea before checking/adjusting the oil level.


Ralf S.
 
Agreed about the filter... you can't go wrong with the biggest one that will fit.

The only "treatment" I give the filter is to stick a bobble hat on it during the cold months, to help it warm up and retain oil temperature (my cars all have a heat exchanger with the coolant, so overheating the oil would be quite difficult to achieve). If you have a favourite auntie who likes to crochet, get her to make you one... ☺️ then hold it on with a cable tie.

I've never primed an oil filter. I just start the engine and let it idle until the oil pressure light goes out, give it a mild blip or two of revs, then turn it off for a cup of tea before checking/adjusting the oil level.


Ralf S.
Thanks for the input Ralf. I just love the idea of a "bobble hat" for the oil filter! My Mrs is a very keen knitter and much prefers the Panda to our Ibiza. I think she'll jump at this idea!
 
As the original subject of this thread was concerning engine oil, I thought I'd jump in with this.

As has been mentioned by folk above above, I'm not at all keen on extended interval oil changes. I do the family vehicles every 12 months or 10,000 miles - at a pinch I'd let the mileage go out to 12,000 if it's on a car which doesn't do much stop start/city running but i wouldn't exceed the 12 months on a lower mileage car. For me this means the cars get serviced just before their MOT is due which also gives them the best chance of passing. The only exception I'd make is brake work as I'd want the new friction material to have enough running time to bed in properly.

Considering the actual oil itself. I think you need to consider what the engine in your car is. By this I mean is it a fairly simple, possibly older, design, like our F.I.R.E. engines or my daughter in law's old Honda Jazz or, indeed, the 2014 Mazda 2 she's just bought to replace it. Engines like these, with low pressure port injection fuel systems and no turbo don't place particularly great stresses on their oils and I think a reasonable generic make of oil which meets the viscosity and other manufacturer's specs will be absolutely fine - so no need to buy a really big name expensive oil. Changing it regularly is far more important. I'd happily use a brand like Comma, TradeTEC (now NAPA), Granville, and many others you'll find on offer. The only thing that would temp me to use a more expensive oil in an engine like this is if it has a timing chain. Good quality, clean engine oil which is changed regularly really is important if timing chains are not to give trouble.

Then there's anything with a Turbo, Common Rail fuel injection, Direct injection, etc, etc - so pretty much all the current generation of small capacity engines you'll find in today's vehicles. Turbos in particular place great strain on engine oils due to heat which tends to break the oil down. The high pressure fuel pumps, mostly plunger operated from a lobe on the camshaft, need a high quality lube too then there are variable output/pressure oil pumps, and a plethora of stuff like restrictor valves, piston cooling oil sprays, actuators for the likes of VVT pulleys and more, much more. This is before you consider the evidence now emerging of the increasing understanding of the roll played by the lubricant in carbon fouling of inlet tracts and Low Speed Pre Ignition. These small, high power output, modern engines have very specific requirements and their oils are very nearly engine specific now. You need to either use the specific oil recommended by the manufacturer, and I don't just mean that if you see a Castrol sticker under the bonnet you think you can chuck in any old oil as long as it's in a Castrol tin! Or, if you want to be more budget conscious, you need to check out actual oil specs. This can be a real minefield if you don't have a fair bit of knowledge so consulting someone like Opie oils or Powerenhancer, to name just two, will keep you on the right track.

In my case, I've always been very fussy about the family diesels because of their turbos but also because one had the VAG PD engine which requires very specific oil if damage is to be avoided to the rather narrow cam lobes/followers. Both the above mentioned suppliers were very informative - The Powerenhancer people can get very technical if you want to go there - I can recommend a visit to their websites.

Having established exactly what oil you are going to go with I always try an online search for special offers. Opie oils often have good spot offers which don't seem to come up on their website. A wee word of caution about on line offers though. Check with the supplier on manufacturing date for the oil they are going to send you. It seems that an unopened oil can be sold as "new" up to 5 years from it's production date (most have the production date on the container) I've never had one older than 6 months from either of my above preferred suppliers and usually less than that.

So what is my current preference? Well, for many years now I've been running "the family fleet" on FUCHS oils and everything seems absolutely fine, no oil related problems and I have great confidence in this manufacturer. My boy's Astra we've just sold on with approaching 130,000 miles on it and it doesn't use a drop between services! In the Fiats (our 2010 Panda FIRE 1.2 60hp and my boy's 2012 Punto 1.4 8 valve) I've used this: https://www.carservicepacks.co.uk/product/fuchs-titan-gt1-5w-40-xtl-5ltrs/ Last service I changed to this: https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-60166-fuchs-titan-gt1-flex-3-5w-40-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx which is now the latest version of the oil and slowly replacing stocks of the older "brew"

The Ibiza I'm running on this: https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-980-fu...lly-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx?variantid=91534 which I changed to as soon as she was out of warranty following the dealers, inexplicable, inability to tell me what oil they had been filling her with during her warranty period services!!!??? She's running very sweetly on it. Of course I don't pay the price you see in this advert as I always look for offers, like this for instance: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16505326...hWLsvGl+A/raY5Shi6/kdN/L0A==|tkp:BFBM_qyO_-9h By the way, Fuchs have only very recently been using these wine box type "oil cubes" so you can be sure oil packaged like this is new stock.
 
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I read in the 90's that you should Prime it with Turbo engines.. so Ive done it with eveything since

My twinairs are paper element..same as the 1248 mj's

So obviously different..
Yes, there seems to be a bit of a return to paper element type oil filters doesn't there? and, of course these designs mean you can't prime them - hopefully the manufacturer takes this into account. With this sort of setup I would always change engine oil first and refill the sump then whip out the filter, fit the new one as quickly as I could and start her up again to keep possible drain down in the strainer and pickup pipe to a minimum.
 
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