Just finished pricing up service items for the 1st service on our 1.2 POP which will be due in three months. All original parts (save the oil, not Selenia) and all sourced from the internet.

Air Filter - £9.61, however a Fiat dealer has assured me this does not have to be changed until the second service but has advised that the pollen filter be changed although this is optional. I have sourced a pollen filter at £8.25 but I will change this myself if I see fit depending on how it looks. Fiat Dealer has stated to me that I only need an oil and filter change on the first year service. (We have low miles).
Engine Flush - £4.00 (some garages do, some don't, I've always used it at oil changes)
Oil Filter - £5.95, bizarrely, if you opt for the genuine Fiat Punto filter which I found is exactly the same part number as the 500 (but only on certain models, so you must check before ordering!), it is a quid cheaper at £5.95 (price quoted) or £6.95 or thereabouts for the same filter listed under Fiat 500.
Fuchs 5w40 oil ACEA C3 - £28.36 for 5 litres, p+p £4.99 total £33.35. Sorry, but the Selenia imho costs far too much and I've decided not to use it. Fuchs is completely within spec and is priced sensibly.
Obviously, not required on first service (and I won't be changing them, but I will be getting some) NGK spark plugs, £13.00 for 4.
All of the above prices include delivery.

Cost of first service with my own parts supplied (changing the oil and oil filter only as recommended by the Fiat Dealer + engine flush) and carried out at a local independent with a labour rate of £39 per hour (£46.80 inc vat), will be £76.76 all in. I have worked out the cost on the basis of dividing the total cost of the oil (incl p&p) and dividing it by 5, so I have calculated 3 litres of oil at £20.01 (I am fully aware that the car only requires 2.8 litres of oil at change.

I think £76.76 all in is spot on for a basic first service at 6000 miles. I know this will not be entirely palatable for some through and through purists who intend only using a Fiat Dealer, but there is a recession on! Such a shame I can't pitch myself as a vat registered garage because otherwise, I could do the job myself for just less than £30, but alas, I will need a stamp in the service log.

frupi said:

...
Engine Flush - £4.00 (some garages do, some don't, I've always used it at oil changes)..

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You've certainly done your legwork.
Some inputs which you can totally disregard if you think they're BS.

One supplier for the 'bits' - looks better for the service history e.g. shop4parts or chris@souls and they should be priced competitively.
Oil. I would always pay for brand name. IMHO Selenia has the name and no-one in Fiat can argue with it. On a separate thread on oil there are differences in brands which is noticeable when they age. On the price that shop4parts charge they're competitive with Fuchs. For me its a no brainer and if you get all the stuff off one supplier you might get 'free' post (this was on the original thread on the FF that post was free over £40 - this could have changed).
Air filter not necessary but at 6K it's not performing as new and it's cheaper to replace a paper one repeatly than to buy a foam or cotton gauze. Still you can get a renewable one for around £30 (ebay, camskill) and the foam gives better protection but ironically its in breech of warranty (I still use one - I can take it out if I have to). Easy to fit. BMC are used on the Abarths. If you opted for one this would be the 'safest' if you can get one.
Plugs. Personally I stuck mine in. Not neccessary but they're cheap. My dealer charges an hour labour for this but I have not got Maxis negotiation skills.
On a 6K service I'd prefer to pay the €75 for a hour's labour from a Fiat garage even though it's solictors rates. It might help on the 3rd year.
Lastly - engine flush - I would not recommend this. I'm not aware of any dealer doing this. There are plenty of internet references out there on the + & -.

loveshandbags said:

You've certainly done your legwork.
Some inputs which you can totally disregard if you think they're BS.

One supplier for the 'bits' - looks better for the service history e.g. shop4parts or chris@souls and they should be priced competitively.
Oil. I would always pay for brand name. IMHO Selenia has the name and no-one in Fiat can argue with it. On a separate thread on oil there are differences in brands which is noticeable when they age. On the price that shop4parts charge they're competitive with Fuchs. For me its a no brainer and if you get all the stuff off one supplier you might get 'free' post (this was on the original thread on the FF that post was free over £40 - this could have changed).
Air filter not necessary but at 6K it's not performing as new and it's cheaper to replace a paper one repeatly than to buy a foam or cotton gauze. Still you can get a renewable one for around £30 (ebay, camskill) and the foam gives better protection but ironically its in breech of warranty (I still use one - I can take it out if I have to). Easy to fit. BMC are used on the Abarths. If you opted for one this would be the 'safest' if you can get one.
Plugs. Personally I stuck mine in. Not neccessary but they're cheap. My dealer charges an hour labour for this but I have not got Maxis negotiation skills.
On a 6K service I'd prefer to pay the €75 for a hour's labour from a Fiat garage even though it's solictors rates. It might help on the 3rd year.
Lastly - engine flush - I would not recommend this. I'm not aware of any dealer doing this. There are plenty of internet references out there on the + & -.

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I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on a few things. I know of main dealerships that always use engine flush and I've used it without any problems for nearly 20 years. Trouble is, a lot of the stuff you can research and read on the net is entirely subjective. Some has factual basis, but quite frankly some is just entire bs. I'm not going to die in a ditch over engine flush and as yet, not a single engine I've used it in, has died.
In terms of buying all the service items from one supplier, I'm happy I've done my homework and it is still cheaper for me to buy everything from different suppliers. I have the time and I really don't mind.
If I want to change the plugs, I can do that myself, I have good mechanical experience having changed wishbones, brake discs/pads, numerous oil changes and body panels on previous cars. I trained as a diesel fuel injection fitter - not much good on a petrol I know, but I can quite happily find my way around an engine.
Concerning the oil, there is nothing absolutely nothing wrong with Fuchs and tbh, with the low miles (8000 max) that my wife will do per annum in our POP, I'm not forking out silly money for Selenia. 5 litres of that stuff with p&p would cost me nearly £50. It's £12 a litre from a Fiat Dealer, so you can see the attraction of Fuchs.
As for paying Fiat's labour rates, I'm getting more and more turned off by the day. As it stands, I'd rather give my local independent the business.

Was in Costco yesterday and Castrol Edge 5w40 was 28.78 inc VAT for 4 litres. When it's on offer I'm sure it's more like 17 or 18 quid.

Nearest Costco to me is over 20 miles away. I did join them once for a year, but never stepped foot in the place again and at £25 membership, I just couldn't justify going back. They used to sell 20 litre drums of Chevron oil at something like £40 +vat, would be nice to get something like Castrol Edge at that price! I noticed Tesco are flogging Edge at £16 a litre, but tbh, it would be cheaper to buy Selenia from a dealer at £12 a litre if I was so inclined, which obviously, I am not.

306maxi said:

Was in Costco yesterday and Castrol Edge 5w40 was 28.78 inc VAT for 4 litres. When it's on offer I'm sure it's more like 17 or 18 quid.

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Maxi as a hobby you should sell some Castrol Edge yourself as an online distributer!

frupi said:

I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on a few things. I know of main dealerships that always use engine flush and I've used it without any problems for nearly 20 years. Trouble is, a lot of the stuff you can research and read on the net is entirely subjective. Some has factual basis, but quite frankly some is just entire bs. I'm not going to die in a ditch over engine flush and as yet, not a single engine I've used it in, has died.

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Frupi - after having a word with my brother I've had a little think about this and hopefully the messenger doesn't get shot - but here goes...

There would be a high proportion of individuals on here who would have bought their car from new or with low mileage so if one is using high quality oil and changing it regularly there very little need to use engine flush. There is a 'recommended' flush called Forte and quite a few established contributors give it the thumbs up. In addition some have used 'pure diesel' in the engine for a few minutes at low revs(Rallycinq).

But times have moved on. Oils now have their own detergents in them which clean the engine. Mobile recommend their own 0w40 as a cleaning oil and then once some of the gunk is removed you can put in a 'better' synthetic. I used this incorrectly on my 500 at 34K (for about 2-3K) but in hindsight it might explain why my old Sport was faster than my current 8K mile Lounge. When I looked at the viscosity range of some oils I couldn't work out why the narrow range oils were more expensive and are actually better. I've come to the conclusion that you must use the really good ones from the start and not rely on wide ranging oil to do a bit of 'cleaning' if you have not been keeping on 'top of things'. The reason why Fiat recommend 5w40 is that it meets the widest range of 'users' who change their oil at 6K and at 18K (which goes back to PJs 'thinking').

Lastly, if Fiat 'found out' that you used Engine flush it could void your warranty. Some manufacturers have issued letters to their dealers stating that engine flush is not to be used...
!

loveshandbags said:

Frupi - after having a word with my brother I've had a little think about this and hopefully the messenger doesn't get shot - but here goes...

There would be a high proportion of individuals on here who would have bought their car from new or with low mileage so if one is using high quality oil and changing it regularly there very little need to use engine flush. There is a 'recommended' flush called Forte and quite a few established contributors give it the thumbs up. In addition some have used 'pure diesel' in the engine for a few minutes at low revs(Rallycinq).

But times have moved on. Oils now have their own detergents in them which clean the engine. Mobile recommend their own 0w40 as a cleaning oil and then once some of the gunk is removed you can put in a 'better' synthetic. I used this incorrectly on my 500 at 34K (for about 2-3K) but in hindsight it might explain why my old Sport was faster than my current 8K mile Lounge. When I looked at the viscosity range of some oils I couldn't work out why the narrow range oils were more expensive and are actually better. I've come to the conclusion that you must use the really good ones from the start and not rely on wide ranging oil to do a bit of 'cleaning' if you have not been keeping on 'top of things'. The reason why Fiat recommend 5w40 is that it meets the widest range of 'users' who change their oil at 6K and at 18K (which goes back to PJs 'thinking').

Lastly, if Fiat 'found out' that you used Engine flush it could void your warranty. Some manufacturers have issued letters to their dealers stating that engine flush is not to be used...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=der5-2S_P1Q&feature=player_embedded

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There is absolutely no disrespect intended by me toward yourself, but again, we'll have to agree to disagree. My old 2003 Mazda MX5, for the seven years it went to a main dealer for servicing, was always given an engine flush additive by them at oil change and it suffered zero ill-effects. I used it in my old Primera every single oil change for the 163,000 miles that I owned it, I've used it on the last four oil changes on my Chrysler Neon. I know for a fact, that many dealerships use the stuff. The trouble is, there are so many variables which could allegedly affect the warranty of a vehicle, you can't possibly know what they all are. As for the oil, well, we all know from reading posts on here, that allegedly, Castrol oil is used in the 500 at some dealerships and not the Selenia that Fiat recommend. I'm not denying that Selenia is a good oil, but of course, if Fiat are going to jump into bed with whomever it is that makes it, sure, they are going to try as much as they can to convince everyone that it's the best thing since sliced bread. Clearly, I don't have a science degree in the molecular make-up of motor oil and I'm absolutely sure that there aren't many on this forum that have, but we don't thrash, hammer or red line our cars like some do. Our 500 is driven gently with rather boring respect. So, whilst I respect your own opinion, we'll just have to call it a truce and do our own thing.

loveshandbags said:

I've had a little think about this and hopefully the messenger doesn't get shot - but here goes...

There would be a high proportion of individuals on here who would have bought their car from new or with low mileage so if one is using high quality oil and changing it regularly there very little need to use engine flush.

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Can't resist joining in this debate.

Let me start by saying that in over a million miles of motoring I've never had a mechanical problem in which lubrication failure was implicated, and I strongly suspect there are many, many more likely ways in which our beloved cars will ultimately end up in that great scrapyard in the sky. If my car one day comes to a grinding halt at the side of the road, it's far more likely to be down to a dodgy taiwanese capacitor in some cheaply-sourced but megaexpensive piece of FIAT-proprietary electronics which has been cunningly packaged in such a way as to be impossible to open yet still manages to let in enough moisture to ensure failure occurs just after the expiry of the warranty period. So a big part of me thinks this is actually a storm in a teacup & your cars will be just fine whatever lubrication strategy you choose.

That said, I'm coming down firmly on the side of loveshandbags on the 'flush or not-to-flush' question. The two biggest risks, IMHO, are that some contamination dislodged by flushing may remain in the engine, and that the solvent properties of the flushing oil may damage the seals, either directly or as a result of removing residues which are actually contributing to the sealing. The first will lead to premature wear, the second to leaks.

Personally I don't like the idea of running an oil for 18,000 miles. It's not the degradation of the oil that bothers me - top quality synthetics use a base oil which is far, far more resistant to loss of performance than the mineral oils of yesteryear - it's the contamination. It doesn't matter how good your oil is, you're still going to get carbon & acids in it from the gases which blow past the rings. Also, the filters are essentially the same as the ones we used 30 years ago, yet we're extending their service life by a factor of 3.

So running an engine until the oil is heavily contaminated & 'compensating' by doing an extra-heavy clean seems plain wrong to me - I'd suggest the time & cost of using a flushing oil would be better spent on more frequent changes.

loveshandbags said:

Frupi - after having a word with my brother I've had a little think about this and hopefully the messenger doesn't get shot - but here goes...

There would be a high proportion of individuals on here who would have bought their car from new or with low mileage so if one is using high quality oil and changing it regularly there very little need to use engine flush. There is a 'recommended' flush called Forte and quite a few established contributors give it the thumbs up. In addition some have used 'pure diesel' in the engine for a few minutes at low revs(Rallycinq).

But times have moved on. Oils now have their own detergents in them which clean the engine. Mobile recommend their own 0w40 as a cleaning oil and then once some of the gunk is removed you can put in a 'better' synthetic. I used this incorrectly on my 500 at 34K (for about 2-3K) but in hindsight it might explain why my old Sport was faster than my current 8K mile Lounge. When I looked at the viscosity range of some oils I couldn't work out why the narrow range oils were more expensive and are actually better. I've come to the conclusion that you must use the really good ones from the start and not rely on wide ranging oil to do a bit of 'cleaning' if you have not been keeping on 'top of things'. The reason why Fiat recommend 5w40 is that it meets the widest range of 'users' who change their oil at 6K and at 18K (which goes back to PJs 'thinking').

Lastly, if Fiat 'found out' that you used Engine flush it could void your warranty. Some manufacturers have issued letters to their dealers stating that engine flush is not to be used...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=der5-2S_P1Q&feature=player_embedded#!

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Completely agree Michael

I also don't agree with frupi's logic that because there have been no effects that it's OK.

Personally I don't agree with the use of engine flushes, if an engine flush was needed then the manufacturer would spec one.

The reason why dealers do engine flushes is because it costs you pence to buy the engine flush and you can charge the customer a fiver for it. It's not going to make you a millionaire, but if you make £4.95 each time, then that works out to be £2500+ for a technician doing 2 services 5 days a week for 52 weeks of the year. Times that by the number of technicians in a garage and that works out to be a fair chunk of money for the garage each year.

jrkitching said:

So running an engine until the oil is heavily contaminated & 'compensating' by doing an extra-heavy clean seems plain wrong to me - I'd suggest the time & cost of using a flushing oil would be better spent on more frequent changes.

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Amen to that.

My first service was done at something like 17k miles (naughty I know) my second at about 24k and I plan to do another at perhaps 32 or 33k miles. IMHO running twice as much oil through the car is a better idea than just doing an engine flush.

306maxi said:

Amen to that.

My first service was done at something like 17k miles (naughty I know) my second at about 24k and I plan to do another at perhaps 32 or 33k miles. IMHO running twice as much oil through the car is a better idea than just doing an engine flush.

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Sounds about right to me. I'm working on 12 months/8000miles (whichever comes first).

One big advantage of DIY servicing is that you can do individual jobs when they actually need doing, rather than having to follow a service schedule designed around a 'big trip' to the dealers when things must either be done there and then, or left for another 18000miles.

ahmett said:

Maxi as a hobby you should sell some Castrol Edge yourself as an online distributer!

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Nah Very little money in it I reckon

jrkitching said:

Sounds about right to me. I'm working on 12 months/8000miles (whichever comes first).

One big advantage of DIY servicing is that you can do individual jobs when they actually need doing, rather than having to follow a service schedule designed around a 'big trip' to the dealers when things must either be done there and then, or left for another 18000miles.

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That's the mileage that is scheduled for a US Abarth 500.

From having owned an Audi 80 it took 2-3 oil changes to get the colour looking right from a previous owner. From an Audi specialist I learned that Audi / VW engines have / had a problem with sludge along with Toyota who currently have a 'class action' against them. I was tempted to use Wynns engine flush at the time but on the back of the can it said do not use if your engine has exceeded 75K miles.

Car manufactures are relying on the advancements in oil with their low sulfated ash content to lengthen their service intervals. I wonder if the Twin Air service interval gets reduced just like the Abarth one got reduced from 12K to 9K and then to 6K on the esseesse.

loveshandbags said:

From having owned an Audi 80 it took 2-3 oil changes to get the colour looking right from a previous owner.

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Good point. Second owners might consider changing the oil more frequently for the first two or three changes.

I guess you guys wouldnt buy my car then!
Oil changes every 18k!

ahmett said:

I guess you guys wouldnt buy my car then!
Oil changes every 18k!

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There was one individual on here with a A500 and he had done over 30K with only one oil change. By delaying shopping around getting the best price it could ultimately end up costing you more money.

loveshandbags said:

There was one individual on here with a A500 and he had done over 30K with only one oil change. By delaying shopping around getting the best price it could ultimately end up costing you more money.

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The cynic in me says it's more likely to ultimately cost some subsequent owner more money.

Some folks may take the view that they'll be chopping the car in after 3yrs and consequently only spend the minimum they can get away with to get the dealer stamps in the service book. Some main dealers apparently collude in this by allowing certain service items (like the 2yr brake fluid change) to be skipped in exchange for a discount on the price.

I'd advise anyone buying a secondhand car to carefully examine all the service invoices to see exactly what's been done - the presence of a stamp in the book (even if it's from a franchised dealer) is sadly no guarantee that all the manufacturer's recommendations have been complied with.

Well i will take my chances on the oil change every 18k with my car (once a year with my mileage.)

If however, something breaks, i will let you guys know!

I plan on keeping the car to a good 100k which will still make the car less than 6 years old with this mileage, since i do many miles and i dont see a reason in getting something else for the time being.

The Fiat 500 is enough for me ( i am a 23 year old bachelor so dont really need any space!)

jrkitching said:

The cynic in me says it's more likely to ultimately cost some subsequent owner more money.

Some folks may take the view that they'll be chopping the car in after 3yrs and consequently only spend the minimum they can get away with to get the dealer stamps in the service book. Some main dealers apparently collude in this by allowing certain service items (like the 2yr brake fluid change) to be skipped in exchange for a discount on the price.

I'd advise anyone buying a secondhand car to carefully examine all the service invoices to see exactly what's been done - the presence of a stamp in the book (even if it's from a franchised dealer) is sadly no guarantee that all the manufacturer's recommendations have been complied with.

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Completely agree.

I take the complete opposite view to servicing as the 3 year owners you mention.

I'm currently waiting to find out if my job goes permanent and then I will be buying the following, with a view to covering the servicing for the next 4 years and buying things which will need to be replaced over that period as well as a couple of things which can just happily sit till they need replacing.

Shopping list is as follows

Timing belt (Febi) x1
Timing belt pulley (SKF) x1
Water pump (Valeo) x1
Pad set (Febi) x1
Front discs (Brembo) x1
Set of pre-assembled brake shoes (bosch) x1 (makes more sense when you see what I mean -> http://seekpart24.com/bosch/brake-shoe-set-204114645?c=100031&at=19093 they come with wheel cylinders which apparently have a habit of sheering bleed screws)
Set of drums (Brembo) x1
Activated Carbon Pollen filter (Febi) x2
Oil filter (Bosch) x8
Air filter (Fiat) x4
Wishbones (Lemforder) x1 set
Droplinks (lemforder) x1 set
Rack ends (Lemforder) x1 set
Tie rod ends (Febi) x1 set
Front wheel bearing (SKF) x1
Rear wheel bearing (SKF) x1
Sets of plugs (NGK or Bosch) x4

Only things I might add would be a thermostat and a set of topmounts for the struts.

Should more or less cover just about all the servicing over 4 years. My choices have mainly been to buy the best products where they're not too expensive although for some bits I did just go for the best, SKF have a pretty good reputation for bearings so everything with bearings in it is SKF although the water pump is valeo because the SKF one is 50% more expensive than the Valeo one and Valeo are pretty good

Going to do a bit of shopping around and I might be able to knock 50-100 quid off the current price of ~£850. Just gives me the peace of mind knowing that the parts for pretty much all the servicing parts are taken care of and there's just labour to pay for. Plus if something does go then I know that the part going on will be as good if not better than the original.

I will definitely be taking a picture of it all when it arrives. Well that's if I order it all.