Technical TwinAir: Will it be reliable? (discuss)

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Technical TwinAir: Will it be reliable? (discuss)

With regard to Loveshandbags assertion that the TA won't be reliable because it's "half an engine" - which aspects are likely to cause failures? It's got a similar specific power output of 96 bhp/l to the A500, the cylinders are around 450cc and limited to around 6000rpm, so it doesn't seem overstressed to me. I think time will tell. I guess to V8 owners it's a quarter of an engine!
 
Ah no - I mean it was more in relation to the TA being an all new engine whilst the US 1.4 MA is the 'old' engine block with with a MA head as referred to by grimwau. I'm not too sure if this is true or not.

Sorry, my misunderstanding - I was confusing the US 1.4 with the european one:confused:.
 
Sorry for any confusion, I'll try to clarify;

When multiair was first designed it was fitted to some existing engines, similar scenario to when fuel injection was conceived and then fitted as a replacement for the carburetor.

When the twin cylinder engine was developed it was designed to incorporate multiair (not as an added piece of equipment).

Any of the engines that incorporate multiair should be an improvement on those that don't have it as it is supposed to increase torque and improve fuel consumption so to answer the question, "are the US being short changed?" I would have to say NO.

Indeed, I think that they have the best deal going, the 1.4 engine and multiair, I have to admit that after my experience with the TA I think that the 4 cyl engine will always be smoother, although Fiat have made an excellent job of smoothing out the imbalance of the two cylinder engine.

I am really looking forward to the A500 multiair. (y)
 
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I suppose what JR was getting at was the boosting of a NA engine.

Is the TwinAir a NA engine, or has it been modified for the turbocharged application like the 1.4 Tjet was over the NA 1.4 16v- ie, lower compression, steel-forged crank, forged pistons, etc? ;)

When the Sales-guys were introduced to the TwinAir, they were shown a development engine producing silly numbers, so there's little doubt in the strength of the internals.

The only issue I can see is the strength of the gearbox. Getting a compact 'box in a 500 that can also handle diesel-like torque is a struggle, and is a factor in the TA being currently capped to 85bhp from what I know.
 
How silly? I was out from Fiat before the TwinAir arrived.

So was I. It was something I was waiting to experience for a long time, but a job offer came up that I couldn't turn down. :bang:

I can't remember the exact figure he told me, but it was twin-turbo'd. :D
 
With regard to Loveshandbags assertion that the TA won't be reliable because it's "half an engine" - which aspects are likely to cause failures? It's got a similar specific power output of 96 bhp/l to the A500, the cylinders are around 450cc and limited to around 6000rpm, so it doesn't seem overstressed to me. I think time will tell. I guess to V8 owners it's a quarter of an engine!

So this is an ideal opportunity to post speculative, unsubstantiated, self-opinionated scare stories & reassurances in the best FIAT forum tradition - I hope we'll have a lively discussion!

:yeahthat:

Hi TrevC. I had a good LOL at your reply and I qualify on all counts :).
On the Fifth gear Youtube originally posted by Venters towards the end of the clip the reviewer referred to the TA as having 'Half an engine' holding 2 cans of beer wrapped if you notice in Duck tape so his hands wouldn't get cold :). The 1.4 Sport is often referred to an half an Abarth :cool: and its complimentary and I referred to the TA in the same context :yum:. I remember showing my Canadian cousin the engine in my dad's viva and he had no interest saying that it was nothing like the real engines 'at home' (probably V8s). I wonder what he would think if he looked under the bonnet of a TA. :)
The TA engine is truely a marvel given it's CC size and what it's capable of putting out.
 
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To be honest I would have to say I was not confident that this dealers service department was au fait with the TA. I realise it is a new development but that is not an excuse for what happened in my case. When I researched the engine before making the decision to buy I read that Selenia had worked in conjunction with FPT to develop an oil specifically for a low friction design and MultiAir. When I collected my car after it was "repaired" and enquired about the oil used I was told that they used the same oil in all of the cars across the three franchises they held. :eek:

After collecting it I was not happy with how it drove and when I mentioned this in a post a forum member with an in depth, Fiat technical background stated that it was essential that the correct oil was used as the multiair solenoids were operated by engine oil and to work correctly they needed the correct oil.

He also stated that in the event of an engine problem Fiat would require an oil sample for analysis before authorising any warranty claims.

So, as I warned in my original thread, any TA owners taking their cars for man oil change would be well advised to ask beforehand what oil will be used and make sure that it is the corect Selenia product (or the equivalent) used.

Definitely. Do you know what the proper oil for the TA is? The oil that I'd got is the Selenia KPE 5w40 and on the front it says 5W40 Multiair so obviously it's up to the demands of working the multiair system, but is it the right oil for the twinair, would be interesting to know :)

I think how reliable the Twinair is comes down to the same factors as with a 1.2 or 1.4 petrol. How they're driven, how they're maintained and how caring the owner is. Rev the crap out of it moments before you pull up at home and you will lessen the life of the turbo, don't put the right oil in? The multiair system won't work properly, get it serviced to the bare minimum required to maintain the warranty and it won't be as reliable as one that has a more caring owner.
 
I think how reliable the Twinair is comes down ... how they're maintained and how caring the owner is. Rev the crap out of it moments before you pull up at home and you will lessen the life of the turbo, don't put the right oil in?

To offset reducing the life of a turbo there was shift to water-cooled turbos to minimise the effect of caramelised bearings. The Nissan 200SX have a sign inside the drivers door stating that the car most idle for 5 mins after climbing hills or fast driving. Some people fitted run on timers to lengthen the life of the turbo (the insurance guys put a 'stop' on this - there must of been some comical examples of cars going missing with these fitted :eek:)
The technology in the 500s Abarth and TA turbo is along the lines of the Porsche 911 being variable geometry one. Here's a clip of one of these types of turbos. I wonder how many of them will be opened up on garage benches in the years to come ? but by all accounts they appear to be very hardy and well proven. The accent of the reviewer should be familiar to some on here. :)

 
Definitely. Do you know what the proper oil for the TA is? The oil that I'd got is the Selenia KPE 5w40 and on the front it says 5W40 Multiair so obviously it's up to the demands of working the multiair system, but is it the right oil for the twinair, would be interesting to know :)

For once I can say, RTFM ;)

The owners handbook states Selenia KPE for the TA - and that's what I've got as top-up for mine when it arrives..
 
For once I can say, RTFM ;)

The owners handbook states Selenia KPE for the TA - and that's what I've got as top-up for mine when it arrives..
Well I don't have a FM for the TA so :p

So it's the same as the 1.2 and 1.4 and the Castrol 5w40 that I've bought would be fine for a TA :)
 
I got mine back from the dealer today, so the recall replaced the turbo although the mechanic said there was nothing wrong with it. I was glad to give back the 1.4 (sorry:eek:) though. I don't consider this to be anything to concern me about the TA in terms of reliability.
 
Neither do I - but I downloaded one from somewhere, and it clearly mentions the TA in there.. Either way, KPE is the stuff, so it should be fine, and it's cheap enough from shop4parts..

Castrol Edge is even cheaper and meets the relevant standards and conforms to the Fiat specification 9.55535-S1 :)
 
I got mine back from the dealer today, so the recall replaced the turbo although the mechanic said there was nothing wrong with it. I was glad to give back the 1.4 (sorry:eek:) though. I don't consider this to be anything to concern me about the TA in terms of reliability.

If it was that bad - I wonder what you would say about a 1.2 :)

Remember - this was a loan car - probably hadn't had it plugs changed in 2 years and the paper filter was full of dust from visiting a half finished building site. :D
 
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Castrol Edge is even cheaper and meets the relevant standards and conforms to the Fiat specification 9.55535-S1 :)

Selenia KPE datasheet here: http://flcf.onion.it/commonfile/eng/pdf/1411_scat_ENG.pdf

Being pedantic but this lists the FIAT spec as 9.55535-S2 (which Castrol EDGE also conforms to).

What really matters though is changing it frequently - running a turbocharged engine on the same oil for 18,000 miles is, IMHO, just plain daft. If you do it yourself, changing the oil + filter will cost you less than a tank of fuel.
 
There's much more to oil now than the viscocity rating... be VERY sure to use EXACTLY whatever the specified oil is ONLY (I know this unfortunately from bitter experience with turbo motors).
 
Selenia KPE datasheet here: http://flcf.onion.it/commonfile/eng/pdf/1411_scat_ENG.pdf

Being pedantic but this lists the FIAT spec as 9.55535-S2 (which Castrol EDGE also conforms to).

What really matters though is changing it frequently - running a turbocharged engine on the same oil for 18,000 miles is, IMHO, just plain daft. If you do it yourself, changing the oil + filter will cost you less than a tank of fuel.
Sorry I was reading from the manual and was looking at the oil for the diseasel which ends in S1 rather than as you say, S2 which it should be :)

Funnily enough the Castrol Edge spec sheet on the back of the bottle I have says 9.355535-S2 which is obviously a misprint
 
There's much more to oil now than the viscocity rating... be VERY sure to use EXACTLY whatever the specified oil is ONLY (I know this unfortunately from bitter experience with turbo motors).
That's why we're referring to the grade as well as the viscosity :)
 
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