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Technical Tyre Replacement

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Technical Tyre Replacement

Guys thank you for the feedback.
I am thinking of three options.

In Greece the roads are horrible (the asphalt is mostly like glass due to not being replaced for many years and the heat. with the problems in greece today i dont see a lot being spent on road fixing either)
meaning that it is very easy to spin the tires. I never really floor it in first and I try to be careful under braking.
Therefore grip is very important but so is wear rate and of course everything is expensive in Greece these days so price is important also. I am trying to find the best compromise between all three.

1. Replacing the Contis with the same type contis - expensive but proven and good perhaps a bit soft wearing?
2. Changing them for Dunlops - These are 40 Euros cheaper for four tires but I am feeling they may not be as good as the contis.
3. I seem impressed with reviews of the Yokohama Tires. I also may slightly be biased to Japanese products thinking that they do not sacrifice on quality ( I am thinking Sony here instead of paying triple the price for Bang And Olufsen style things which dont seem to have much better quality). I didnt check the price yet in Greece but I will try to find a tire shop selling Yokohamas or call the Greek distributor directly. In england they seem quite a bit cheaper than the contis about 15 pounds per tire. If the price difference between the Contis and Yokohamas are more than 50 euros I will seriously think of getting the Yokohamas.

I never understood why Michelin tires are so much more expensive than the rest wihtout being out of this world better than the rest I feel! Bridgestones are also expensive and I dont know but I have a bias against Korean things so I think I will avoid Hankook (none of the things they make seem to have any passion! Hyundai scares me off completely from Korean things other than lets say a Fridge! ) Goodyear could be an option but they are barely any cheaper than the Contis.
I will tell you my decision when I make it as i feel i still have some time on my current set (I am at 25,000 km I am aiming to go to 40,000 before changing and I estimate I will reach this by the end of the year at the latest).
 
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BRU5IIS said:
Nope, the Turanza's are very good. And there's the rub! - They're almost too good for my style of driving - which is more sedate than spirited.
Coupled with the eventual replacement expense I was just wondering if there was a tyre out there that would suit me and my needs better?
Click to expand...

Well to be honest the ER300 is a touring tyre with leanings towards being an Eco tyre. This means it'll have a bit of grip, but not as much as a sport tyre (The Potenza RE 040 in that size)

In terms of noise a touring tyre will generally be the best bet, a sporty tyre will generally have a lot of rolling resistance which makes for noise and an eco tyre will be rock hard and generally fairly noisy also.

Personally I'd stick with what you've got, just remember that as a tyre wears down and more rubber is in contact with the road, the more noise will be produced so replacing worn ER300's with new ER300's will mean quieter motoring.
 
ahmett said:
Guys thank you for the feedback.
I am thinking of three options.

In Greece the roads are horrible (the asphalt is mostly like glass due to not being replaced for many years and the heat. with the problems in greece today i dont see a lot being spent on road fixing either)
meaning that it is very easy to spin the tires. I never really floor it in first and I try to be careful under braking.
Therefore grip is very important but so is wear rate and of course everything is expensive in Greece these days so price is important also. I am trying to find the best compromise between all three.

1. Replacing the Contis with the same type contis - expensive but proven and good perhaps a bit soft wearing?
2. Changing them for Dunlops - These are 40 Euros cheaper for four tires but I am feeling they may not be as good as the contis.
3. I seem impressed with reviews of the Yokohama Tires. I also may slightly be biased to Japanese products thinking that they do not sacrifice on quality ( I am thinking Sony here instead of paying triple the price for Bang And Olufsen style things which dont seem to have much better quality). I didnt check the price yet in Greece but I will try to find a tire shop selling Yokohamas or call the Greek distributor directly. In england they seem quite a bit cheaper than the contis about 15 pounds per tire. If the price difference between the Contis and Yokohamas are more than 50 euros I will seriously think of getting the Yokohamas.

I never understood why Michelin tires are so much more expensive than the rest wihtout being out of this world better than the rest I feel! Bridgestones are also expensive and I dont know but I have a bias against Korean things so I think I will avoid Hankook (none of the things they make seem to have any passion! Hyundai scares me off completely from Korean things other than lets say a Fridge! ) Goodyear could be an option but they are barely any cheaper than the Contis.
I will tell you my decision when I make it as i feel i still have some time on my current set (I am at 25,000 km I am aiming to go to 40,000 before changing and I estimate I will reach this by the end of the year at the latest).
Click to expand...

Well as a guide, I've had about 32,000 km's so far out of my Bridgestone's and they've still got 4-5mm of tread left so they still have about 50-40% life left in them (if we're talking about getting them changed at 1.6mm) so Bridgestones can be a hard wearing tyre and they don't seem incredibly expensive IMHO :) But again, different size of tyre and different tyre so the experience may not be the same with a 185/55 R15
 
ahmett said:
Guys thank you for the feedback.
I am thinking of three options.

In Greece the roads are horrible (the asphalt is mostly like glass due to not being replaced for many years and the heat. with the problems in greece today i dont see a lot being spent on road fixing either)
meaning that it is very easy to spin the tires. I never really floor it in first and I try to be careful under braking.
Therefore grip is very important but so is wear rate and of course everything is expensive in Greece these days so price is important also. I am trying to find the best compromise between all three.

1. Replacing the Contis with the same type contis - expensive but proven and good perhaps a bit soft wearing?
2. Changing them for Dunlops - These are 40 Euros cheaper for four tires but I am feeling they may not be as good as the contis.
3. I seem impressed with reviews of the Yokohama Tires. I also may slightly be biased to Japanese products thinking that they do not sacrifice on quality ( I am thinking Sony here instead of paying triple the price for Bang And Olufsen style things which dont seem to have much better quality). I didnt check the price yet in Greece but I will try to find a tire shop selling Yokohamas or call the Greek distributor directly. In england they seem quite a bit cheaper than the contis about 15 pounds per tire. If the price difference between the Contis and Yokohamas are more than 50 euros I will seriously think of getting the Yokohamas.

I never understood why Michelin tires are so much more expensive than the rest wihtout being out of this world better than the rest I feel! Bridgestones are also expensive and I dont know but I have a bias against Korean things so I think I will avoid Hankook (none of the things they make seem to have any passion! Hyundai scares me off completely from Korean things other than lets say a Fridge! ) Goodyear could be an option but they are barely any cheaper than the Contis.
I will tell you my decision when I make it as i feel i still have some time on my current set (I am at 25,000 km I am aiming to go to 40,000 before changing and I estimate I will reach this by the end of the year at the latest).
Click to expand...

On the grouping the tyre choices you have Premium, Mid Range and Budget and the Yokohama fall into the 'Mid Range'. If the roads are that bad with 'glassy' asphalt and given the heat in Greece - could you opt for a slightly harder compound (the Contis are a bit soft) to give better wear. Funnily enough quite a few owners that have contis want to change - maybe it's because they think they can get better value.
My brother-in-law was looking for me to source a set of fun flat tyres for his beamer (these are pricey :eek:) and he got a set of 4 from a local garage himself much cheaper that I could get them for (through my brother). It seems that they ordered in a particular set for a customer and they changed their mind on the brand so he got them 'cheap' but still cost him €100 a tyre. At least you only have the 15s and if you have a hankering for the Yohohama and the price is good then go for them.
 
loveshandbags said:
(the Contis are a bit soft)
Click to expand...

See here's the thing, the Conti Premium Contact 2's on my 406 were fairly hard and wore better than the Michelin Pilot Primacy's on it. So far on the Subaru they've also worn fairly well too.

There is simply too much variation between different sizes to draw comparisons which are 100% reliable and sometimes one tyre in one size can be fantastic and in another size it's rubbish.
 
306maxi said:
See here's the thing, the Conti Premium Contact 2's on my 406 were fairly hard and wore better than the Michelin Pilot Primacy's on it. So far on the Subaru they've also worn fairly well too.

There is simply too much variation between different sizes to draw comparisons which are 100% reliable and sometimes one tyre in one size can be fantastic and in another size it's rubbish.
Click to expand...

Your are correct Maxi. I hope for my sake that I'm wrong on the contis being a bit soft on my current 500. I had the contis on my last car the BMW 323i M suspension setup and they didn't wear that well particularily on the rear (expensive 225s) - but there were performance tyres :D. Anyway ahmetts requirements appear to be price and wear and some 'passion'. I take it that he means feedback on the steering wheel. ;)
 
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loveshandbags said:
Your are correct Maxi. I hope for my sake that I'm wrong on the contis being a bit soft on my current 500. I had the contis on my last car the BMW 323i M suspension setup and they didn't that wear that well particularily on the rear (expensive 225s) - but there were performance tyres :D. Anyway ahmetts requirements appear to be price and wear and some 'passion'. I that it that it means feedback on the steering wheel. ;)
Click to expand...

Well if there's one thing I think Premium Contact 2's do it's steer well. The wifes car had Conti's on the front which got swapped to the back when the Vredestein Sportrac 3's went on the front. Whilst the Vredestein's are grippier, the Conti's give much better steering feel. It's the age old tradeoff between feel and grip isn't it?
 
306maxi said:
Well if there's one thing I think Premium Contact 2's do it's steer well. The wifes car had Conti's on the front which got swapped to the back when the Vredestein Sportrac 3's went on the front. Whilst the Vredestein's are grippier, the Conti's give much better steering feel. It's the age old tradeoff between feel and grip isn't it?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't pretend to know anything about tyres but I like my 16 inch wheels and the Continental Premium contact 2s. The little thump that I got last Sunday re-confirmed it & I certainly felt it :D. On the TA Volare (the 1st test drive) it had 15s and when I was pushing on a sweeping bend if did not feel very sure-footed. I don't know if it was the profile of the tyre or the make or the slightly less softer setup. But I can relate to the 'passion' that ahmett referred to and it brought a smile to my face.:)
 
loveshandbags said:
On the grouping the tyre choices you have Premium, Mid Range and Budget and the Yokohama fall into the 'Mid Range'. If the roads are that bad with 'glassy' asphalt and given the heat in Greece - could you opt for a slightly harder compound (the Contis are a bit soft) to give better wear. Funnily enough quite a few owners that have contis want to change - maybe it's because they think they can get better value.
My brother-in-law was looking for me to source a set of fun flat tyres for his beamer (these are pricey :eek:) and he got a set of 4 from a local garage himself much cheaper that I could get them for (through my brother). It seems that they ordered in a particular set for a customer and they changed their mind on the brand so he got them 'cheap' but still cost him €100 a tyre. At least you only have the 15s and if you have a hankering for the Yohohama and the price is good then go for them.
Click to expand...


Actually the thing that suprised me about the Yokos were that they were placed in exactly the same category as the Contis, 'the touring tyre' category that maxi had mentioned in the past. Thats why i considered them. They really should have tyre testing track days where you test the tyres for free and in return you give feedback to the manufacturers. Far more effective than the pirelli calendars if you ask me = )
 
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306maxi said:
Well as a guide, I've had about 32,000 km's so far out of my Bridgestone's and they've still got 4-5mm of tread left so they still have about 50-40% life left in them (if we're talking about getting them changed at 1.6mm) so Bridgestones can be a hard wearing tyre and they don't seem incredibly expensive IMHO :) But again, different size of tyre and different tyre so the experience may not be the same with a 185/55 R15
Click to expand...



Yes in addition to driving style, tyre replacement depends on how much wear you want to have on them before replacing them! Ive also noticed that its not only dependent on tread depth, but also on how smooth the tyre surface is around the thread, because ive seen tires with tread depth still acceptable but the person had slid the tires so much that the texture on the sections of the tire next to the thread looked completely like slicks but in a bad way without the grip. Once also I saw a set of used tires at the tyre shop that were taken from a car and they were literally like slicks but without the stickiness! Not only that, but they had like 0 mm thread left!!!
 
ahmett said:
Actually the thing that suprised me about the Yokos were that they were placed in exactly the same category as the Contis, 'the touring tyre' category that maxi had mentioned in the past. Thats why i considered them. They really should have tyre testing track days where you test the tyres for free and in return you give feedback to the manufacturers. Far more effective than the pirelli calendars if you ask me = )
Click to expand...

I double checked the grouping of the Yokos and they do list them in the Premium league as the cheapest in the group...
http://www.tyretraders.com/tyresearchresults.aspx?width=185&ratio=55&rim=15&man=All&flat=False&filter=Price&ftype=Ascending&pricing=1&cat=Car+Tyres&speed=All&Loading=All&tyreType=2

My experience of them was that a lot of Civic Vtec drivers bought them - I haven't had them so I cann't comment but another member seems to...
Caravadossi said:
Yoko Cdrive are mid-range tyres. Unsurprisingly - they perform accordingly. Surprisingly Yokohama (certainly in some sizes) still seem to think they’re entitled to a premier league price.
Click to expand...
but I wouldn't let that but you off if they're value for money.
 
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ahmett said:
... I seem impressed with reviews of the Yokohama Tires. I also may slightly be biased to Japanese products thinking that they do not sacrifice on quality ...
Click to expand...

If you prefer the C.drive, particularly with a good price advantage – then take them.

The C.drive (195/65R15V) was tested by the european authorities back in 03/2008 & came in at a respectable 7th place. The Turanza ER300 took the gold medal in that test - & (at that time) priced at £64 … as was the C.drive! As perhaps expected, the top placings went to `Big6’ or premier league players – the only other outsider was the Vredestein SportTrac3 (5th).

But I find today Yoko have moved-on & introduced the C.drive2. Yoko argue this version was developed to keep-up with the new european expectations. In the 03/2010 (185/65R15H) tests this version was placed 12th, in the `befriedegend’ (satisfactory) category – as it happens, with the Turanza ER300 ecopia (7th).

Just for-the-record – I’m no tyre guru. I leave the testing to the experts & read their reports. I’ve worked in the auto industry, & there’s no-way anyone would recommend any component without the design team & lab team examining it & testing it to destruction. I accessed the Yokohama UK site earlier, & found it impressive re informing the customers. They give a good insight into the tests required to be an approved OE supplier.

All my FIATs have come with Big6 tyres, Conti, Michelin, etc – either as OE, or the choice of the previous owner. I tend to favour mid-range replacements – although did buy a pair of Firestone once (like a lemming, bought what was fitted as OE).

On the `Japanese’ issue, it may say “Yokohama” on the sidewall, but they may not have been made in Japan - & the Japanese have made some poor tyres in the past (e.g. Falken Ziex ZE512).
 
My god, the Falken ziex ze512's the wifes Subaru had were pisspoor! I rate them better than the Tigar's my 406 came with, but there were no redeeming features to the Falken's other than their ability to stop the rims scraping on the tarmac and throwing sparks everywhere.

I rate Vredestein's highly myself. A guy I know from another forum works for one of the big 6 as a tyre tester and the company he works for tests the competitors tyres and marks them. When I was looking at winter tyres he said that his company's tyre had almost exactly the same score as the Vredestein Snowtrac 3 but that the Snowtrac was a little better in the snow whereas his company's tyre was a little more long lasting. He had a look at their benchmarks in 195/65 R15 and their tyre was the best in that category so it goes to show how different sizes change things.

On the subject of where tyres are made, I don't really see a problem with tyres being made in different places. In Australia most of the Michelin's come from Thailand and south east asia, my Bridgestones are from Italy, our Conti's from Germany and the Vredesteins from the Netherlands. All have been good tyres though :)

Caravadossi, how are you finding your Fulda's?
 
ahmett said:
( I am thinking Sony here instead of paying triple the price for Bang And Olufsen style things which dont seem to have much better quality).
Click to expand...

Completely off topic here but B&O products are miles ahead of Sony in terms of build quality and picture/sound quality. Their audio ranges are absolutely superb and can't compare to a single thing Sony currently has on the market!
 
My dad has a Beosound 1 and remote (which cost something silly like AU$450!!!!) and it's well built stuff :) Sony stuff is crap IMHO, having worked in a Sony service centre I'd say that Sony stuff is overpriced and crap quality.
 
Lloyd71 said:
Completely off topic here but B&O products are miles ahead of Sony in terms of build quality and picture/sound quality. Their audio ranges are absolutely superb and can't compare to a single thing Sony currently has on the market!
Click to expand...

I got a present of a Beosound 2300 from the OH in the mid 90s. When I heard how much she paid for it :eek: I wouldn't use and it sat in our attic until we moved house. When I finally got over the price the 'cheap' speakers that would work with it were no longer available and the next set up had gone up in price by 50% :eek: :). IMHO the stuff is completely over-rated and the slightly older stuff is starting to look out of date. The one thing that it was good at was multi-room but it took the likes of Sonos to give it multi-source capability.

306maxi said:
My dad has a Beosound 1 and remote (which cost something silly like AU$450!!!!) and it's well built stuff :) Sony stuff is crap IMHO, having worked in a Sony service centre I'd say that Sony stuff is overpriced and crap quality.
Click to expand...

My 29inch CRT Sony is still going strong despite been dropping down a bit of a staircase. I did buy an earlier version sony home cinema system and the system blew after 2 weeks and I haven't bought any more of their stuff until very recently. B&O gear is well made but when it goes wrong it takes a 500 full fat service just to get it looked at. I may not much about tyres ;) but I can configure the B&O masterlink setups and avoid the €75 per hour + call out labour charges.:)
 
loveshandbags said:
I got a present of a Beosound 2300 from the OH in the mid 90s. When I heard how much she paid for it :eek: I wouldn't use and it sat in our attic until we moved house. When I finally got over the price the 'cheap' speakers that would work with it were no longer available and the next set up had gone up in price by 50% :eek: :). IMHO the stuff is completely over-rated and the slightly older stuff is starting to look out of date. The one thing that it was good at was multi-room but it took the likes of Sonos to give it multi-source capability.



My 29inch CRT Sony is still going strong despite been dropping down a bit of a staircase. I did buy an earlier version sony home cinema system and the system blew after 2 weeks and I haven't bought any more of their stuff until very recently. B&O gear is well made but when it goes wrong it takes a 500 full fat service just to get it looked at. I may not much about tyres ;) but I can configure the B&O masterlink setups and avoid the €75 per hour + call out labour charges.:)
Click to expand...
Going way off topic, don't get me wrong, Sony CRT's are fantastic. My parents have got a 26" 4:3 Sony Trinitron set and it's fantastic. They've also got my old Sony 17" flat inside flat outside trinitron tube monitor which I refuse to let them chuck. But most of their modern stuff is crap :)
 
306maxi said:
My god, the Falken ziex ze512's the wifes Subaru had were pisspoor! ... I rate Vredestein's highly myself ... how are you finding your Fulda's?
Click to expand...

Fulda have been my personal tyre choice since the 03/2008 (175/65R14) tests - 1. Cinturato P4; 2. Conti EC3; 3. Fulda EcoControl & 4. Yoko Cdrive. Can’t comment on performance as I’m not one to push-the-envelope on driving. I take the view I’ve access to qualified professional testers – all for free on i/net or down the library!

A set of 175/65R14 EcoControl replaced the worn 165/70R14 Firestone F590 Fuelsavers on a Punto Mk2B - & a 2x pair of 185/65R15 replaced the worn 175/65R15 Cint P4 on a GP. The 175/65R14 came out of a Fulda plant – but the 185/65R15 came out of a Goodyear? plant in S Africa.

Getting hold of them can be frustrating. I phoned (Goodyear-Dunlop) Fulda, B’ham to enquire on stockists - & understandably they pointed to (Goodyear-Dunlop) HiQ outlets. Had to wait couple of weeks for the 2nd pair for the GP. I expect they hope to turn you towards their Goodyear-Dunlop options. When I said I didn’t want premier class – the HiQ tyre shop manager offered Vredestein, & I saw they were fitted to his car. The Mk2B full-set I got within couple of days from tyretraders.com.

I’d have stayed with Fulda, but they don’t come within my current spec. (225/45R18 95Y) – so replacing Conti SC3 with Falken FK452. I looked at Yoko – but awful price!

I wouldn’t write-off Hankook – are they not OE suppliers to Ford & VW … & FIAT-Chrysler?
 
Caravadossi said:
Fulda have been my personal tyre choice since the 03/2008 (175/65R14) tests - 1. Cinturato P4; 2. Conti EC3; 3. Fulda EcoControl & 4. Yoko Cdrive. Can’t comment on performance as I’m not one to push-the-envelope on driving. I take the view I’ve access to qualified professional testers – all for free on i/net or down the library!

A set of 175/65R14 EcoControl replaced the worn 165/70R14 Firestone F590 Fuelsavers on a Punto Mk2B - & a 2x pair of 185/65R15 replaced the worn 175/65R15 Cint P4 on a GP. The 175/65R14 came out of a Fulda plant – but the 185/65R15 came out of a Goodyear? plant in S Africa.

Getting hold of them can be frustrating. I phoned (Goodyear-Dunlop) Fulda, B’ham to enquire on stockists - & understandably they pointed to (Goodyear-Dunlop) HiQ outlets. Had to wait couple of weeks for the 2nd pair for the GP. I expect they hope to turn you towards their Goodyear-Dunlop options. When I said I didn’t want premier class – the HiQ tyre shop manager offered Vredestein, & I saw they were fitted to his car. The Mk2B full-set I got within couple of days from tyretraders.com.

I’d have stayed with Fulda, but they don’t come within my current spec. (225/45R18 95Y) – so replacing Conti SC3 with Falken FK452. I looked at Yoko – but awful price!

I wouldn’t write-off Hankook – are they not OE suppliers to Ford & VW … & FIAT-Chrysler?
Click to expand...


Yes they are and i have seen many new audis in greece (audi a3) with hankook tires but i am thinking this is because audi is being stingy and cutting costs = ) Their better models dont have hankook obviously
 
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