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Technical Fiat 500 1.2 to 1.4 to twinair comparsion - LPG

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Technical Fiat 500 1.2 to 1.4 to twinair comparsion - LPG

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antarian

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Hi everybody,
At first I would like to apologize for my english :) Unfortunately its not my mother language.

I want to buy a new 500 in LPG. Unfortunatelly only 1.2 is offered. 1.4 and twin air is not offered in LPG and I want to ask if somebody have experience with 500 in LPG?

I wanted to buy 1.4 or twinair, but right now it seems not possible because LPG is not offered. Is there a big boost in acceleration etc for 1.4 and twinair over 1.2? Unfortunately I tested to drive only twinair and I havent chance to test both.

I want to ask about performance of 1.2 in town I am curious also about speeds around 80 m/h. I am not sure if 80 m/h is not too much for this car? What will be avarege fuel consumption in this speed?

price difference is around 2200 pound for 1.4 or twinair if i compare it with 1.2 - price of LPG is around 900 so even with LPG, I will save over 1000 pound with 1.2 and I dont count further savings because of cheap LPG.

So the question is: Is it really worth it to buy 1.4 or twinair over 1.2, if I will drive mainly in town, 60 m/h and sometimes I want to be able to ride 80 to 90 miles per hour on motorway? (I suppose that in this speeds it will be very very loud)

Thanks a lot in advance for any post
 
antarian said:
Hi everybody,
At first I would like to apologize for my english :) Unfortunately its not my mother language.

I want to buy a new 500 in LPG. Unfortunatelly only 1.2 is offered. 1.4 and twin air is not offered in LPG and I want to ask if somebody have experience with 500 in LPG?

I wanted to buy 1.4 or twinair, but right now it seems not possible because LPG is not offered. Is there a big boost in acceleration etc for 1.4 and twinair over 1.2? Unfortunately I tested to drive only twinair and I havent chance to test both.

I want to ask about performance of 1.2 in town I am curious also about speeds around 80 m/h. I am not sure if 80 m/h is not too much for this car? What will be avarege fuel consumption in this speed?

price difference is around 2200 pound for 1.4 or twinair if i compare it with 1.2 - price of LPG is around 900 so even with LPG, I will save over 1000 pound with 1.2 and I dont count further savings because of cheap LPG.

So the question is: Is it really worth it to buy 1.4 or twinair over 1.2, if I will drive mainly in town, 60 m/h and sometimes I want to be able to ride 80 to 90 miles per hour on motorway? (I suppose that in this speeds it will be very very loud)

Thanks a lot in advance for any post
Click to expand...

Hi antarian.
I ran a Talbot Horizon 1.3L on LPG - now that is showing my age. Had it for 2 years and got used to the temperment of LPG making sure that if I was going to left it parked overnight that I would have switched it over to petrol. It performed around 3-4mpg less than petrol, a bit slower but environmentally friendly. In Ireland the government allowed it be sold at half price compared to petrol but then removed the concessions and it became the price of petrol. You cann't get it anymore and even if you could, no one would trust the government again.
Going back to your post. I reckon that the only car suitable for LPG is the 1.4 With 100bhp running it on LPG will probably result in the performance of a 1.2 (no facts to back this up). Angel Tuning have a development car a 1.4 that runs LPG and it seems to be successful.
http://www.nuova500shop.com/productview.aspx?PID=206&npp=12&cp=0&cat=66
What is the price differential between petrol and LPG in your country and would your car insurance company be 'open' to this modification. It is also worth noting that your warranty is invalidated.
 
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RobinPJ said:
I am pretty ignorant about LPG but wouldn't space for the tank be an issue with a 500?
Click to expand...

The LPG tank fits into the spare wheel area of the 500. But it's a small tank - I would imagine that you get no more than 100 miles in it. The LPG tank that I had in the other car was an intrusion and I was always felt uncomfortable if I got rear ended - good excuse to keep the pedal to the metal. :)

Volvo did sell a LPG kit with their car (360 ?) that ticked the boxes for insurance guys because it was dealer supplied. It was the 'hatchbox' model and was referred to having a pair of 'wooden clogs' (a pair of shoes that never wear out). It was a way of selling a car that no one wanted.
 
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LPG price in my country is sold at half price compared to petrol. Sometimes especially in summer the difference is even bigger.

The bomb is installed instead of spare wheel area and have around 35 l. So it should last around 400 km (250 miles) if i count with 1.4. Dealer now confirm me that I can install LPG into 1,4 too.

I wont lost warranty from FIAT. They officially supply it to our market.
 
grimwau said:
I hope that that is just a translation error. :devil:
Click to expand...

I just forgot to write it in english :D Fuel (gas) tank will be better :):):)

EDIT: because I forgot to count with higher fuel consumption for LPG ... its possible to drive only 200 miles per full tank.
 
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antarian said:
LPG price in my country is sold at half price compared to petrol. Sometimes especially in summer the difference is even bigger. that's brillant. I hope the price lasts. Very tempting.

The bomb is installed instead of spare wheel area and have around 35 l. So it should last around 400 km (250 miles) if i count with 1.4. Dealer now confirm me that I can install LPG into 1,4 too.
that's a good capacity tank. doubt that you will be able to 'brim' it. You have to leave an empty space in the tank to allow for gas expansion. My crappie Horizon only gave 113miles on a tank (it was like 'clockwork') giving typically 29mpg and it was a good size tank.
I wont lost warranty from FIAT. They officially supply it to our market. that's also nice and should keep the insurance guys happy
Click to expand...

If you hanker for a 1.4 and find that the 1.2 doesn't do it for you - then I would say it would be worthwhile doing it (y) providing you're doing enough miles in the year and you plan to keep the car for a 'good while'.
I would reckon that a 1.2 on LPG would be a bit miserable. It's 69bhp in the 500 and I think only 60bhp in the Panda so it is kind of tuned.
Running on LPG the ignition would be retarded to allow for the lower octane. Also LPG runs dry and you are supposed to run a tank of petrol every 4th tank but the 500 engine may be more tolerant.
In Ireland the price difference between a 1.2 & a 1.4 is €2000 and there is no 1.4 sport or pop so its €4000 between a 1.2 pop and a 1.4 lounge !
I would suggest sending an email in Nigel in Angel Tuning on the URL that I posted to get it 'from the horse's mouth'.
Hopefully there will be another forum member out there running LPG on a 500 and they may be able to give you a better insight.
Also remember there will be no gauge for LPG in the car - it's on the tank - it's an interesting experience switching over to petrol at the wrong time :)
Just checked some URLs on LPG and Fiat and one site quoted 31 lt for a Panda - not that it matters.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/fiat-to-showcase-lpg-grande-punto-panda-and-bravo-3343.html
http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/forsale/00771%20fiat-500-lpg-conversion.htm
http://www.zimbio.com/Car+news/articles/whSnAZ-qgBw/NEW+FIAT+500+EASYPOWER+LPG
 
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finally i will propably choose 1.2 only because of big discount from dealer. It will be 3000 euro cheaper (both lounge). Maybe i will buy 1.4 if the difference will be only 2000 euro. i need to check other dealers.

what about noise in car in 90 miles per hour? (which one is less loudy? 1.2 or 1.4?)
 
antarian said:
finally i will propably choose 1.2 only because of big discount from dealer. It will be 3000 euro cheaper (both lounge). Maybe i will buy 1.4 if the difference will be only 2000 euro. i need to check other dealers.

what about noise in car in 90 miles per hour? (which one is less loudy? 1.2 or 1.4?)
Click to expand...

The figs wouldn't work out unless you doing over 10k a year.

If you plan on doing 90mph you better off getting a 1.2 because it will take much longer to get to that speed. :)
 
306maxi: 1,2 or 1,4 ??? And i checked the convetor of units and I mean 130 km per hour which means only 80 miles per hour ...

I hope that right know I wrote it right.

I do around 10k per year. (commuting to work etc. and I want something economical.)

And when the investment to LPG will be back (I count it should be back in 3 years) And then I will give this one to my girl friend which will finish the university and i will buy something stronger for me :)

But you know, I cant help myself and 1,4 is like magnet event without discount. I am really curious what i will buy in the end.
 
antarian said:
306maxi: 1,2 or 1,4 ??? And i checked the convetor of units and I mean 130 km per hour which means only 80 miles per hour ...
Maxi's recommendation of a 1.2 is correct if you work out the maths
I hope that right know I wrote it right.

I do around 10k per year. (commuting to work etc. and I want something economical.)
I am assuming that this is miles
And when the investment to LPG will be back (I count it should be back in 3 years) And then I will give this one to my girl friend which will finish the university and i will buy something stronger for me :)
It's always best to buy for now and now for in 3 years time
But you know, I cant help myself and 1,4 is like magnet event without discount. I am really curious what i will buy in the end.
Click to expand...

I have made A LOT OF assumptions for comparison purposes so please don't tear me apart !...

Working out the figures on 10K miles....
http://www.aaireland.ie/AA/Motoring-advice/Petrol-Prices.aspx
@€6.66 a gallon
1.2 42mpg 238gals €1585
1.4 35mpg 286gals €1905
1.4 LPG 32mpg 312gals €1039 (half price of the petrol)
assuming that the TA will have the same mpg as the 1.2 :eek:
[making assumptions on a typical average mpg]

But you add up the cost of the car & the fuel (Making a few assumptions)
€11K + 4755 = €15755 1.2 lounge + 3yrs petrol
€13K + 5715 = €18715 1.4 lounge + 3yrs petrol
€14.5K + 3117 = €17617 1.4 + conversion @ €1.5k + 3yrs LPG
€12.6K + 4755 = €17355 Twin Air Lounge + 3yrs petrol

the 1.2 comes out the cheapest (y)
and if you want the slightly faster 1.4 the LPG conversion pays for itself
If you have the budget for the above the Twin Air seems the better option and by all accounts it's good on motorways (y)

Plus I reckon the re-sale on a TA will be the same or better in 3 yrs than a 1.4 LPG but time will tell...
 
At first I think about twin air but when i see so many negative reviews about fuel consumption I change my mind and started to think about 1.4 with LPG (but of course, this is more expensive option - its clear).

Other thing was that I dont like turbo effect, but I am not used to it. And I have also problem with sound of motor. I am not saying that it wasnt nice but very unusual so I wast able to say rpm it was simply completely different. (But I believe that after few days I will love it, it only need some time)

But I must say that your counts are rights :) I have similar table in excel.
MODEL ------- FIAT 500 1,2 --- FIAT 500 1,2 LPG --- FIAT 500 0,9 twin --- FIAT 500 1,4 LPG
fuel l/100km --- 5,1 --------------- 6,5 ------------------- 4,1 ------------------- 7,8
price of car ---- 10977 ------------12093 ---------------- 13560 ---------------- 14833
3 year fuel ----- 3427 ------------- 2184 ----------------- 2755 ------------------ 2620
6 year fuel ----- 5712 ------------- 3640 ----------------- 4592 ------------------ 4368
total in 3 year -- 14404 ----------- 14277 --------------- 16315 ------------------17454
total in 6 year -- 16689 ------------15733 --------------- 18152 ------------------ 19201

This is my table 16K km (aproximately 10K miles) - I have fuel consumption in l/km.

What I should mention also is that I will pay higher tax (insurance) for 1,4. (not huge difference - 50 EUR per year). There is also service needed for LPG (but its 30 EUR per year so I also dont count it)

fuel consumption etc. is information from FIAT, because real fuel consumption I dont know. I only read that twin air isnt so efficient like they wrote
 
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antarian said:
At first I think about twin air but when i see so many negative reviews about fuel consumption I change my mind and started to think about 1.4 with LPG (but of course, this is more expensive option - its clear).

Other thing was that I dont like turbo effect, but I am not used to it. And I have also problem with sound of motor. I am not saying that it wasnt nice but very unusual so I wast able to say rpm it was simply completely different. (But I believe that after few days I will love it, it only need some time)

But I must say that your counts are rights :) I have similar table in excel.
MODEL ------- FIAT 500 1,2 --- FIAT 500 1,2 LPG --- FIAT 500 0,9 twin --- FIAT 500 1,4 LPG
fuel l/100km --- 5,1 --------------- 6,5 ------------------- 4,1 ------------------- 7,8
price of car ---- 10977 ------------12093 ---------------- 13560 ---------------- 14833
3 year fuel ----- 3427 ------------- 2184 ----------------- 2755 ------------------ 2620
6 year fuel ----- 5712 ------------- 3640 ----------------- 4592 ------------------ 4368
total in 3 year -- 14404 ----------- 14277 --------------- 16315 ------------------17454
total in 6 year -- 16689 ------------15733 --------------- 18152 ------------------ 19201

This is my table 16K km (aproximately 10K miles) - I have fuel consumption in l/km.

What I should mention also is that I will pay higher tax (insurance) for 1,4. (not huge difference - 50 EUR per year). There is also service needed for LPG (but its 30 EUR per year so I also dont count it)

fuel consumption etc. is information from FIAT, because real fuel consumption I dont know. I only read that twin air isnt so efficient like they wrote
Click to expand...

The negative reviews on the TA re fuel consumption was down to
1. New engine - needs to be broken in
2. A knock sensor issue affectingly mpg
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/258424-twinair-thread-including-mpg-43.html
Post #641

If you are doing quite a lot of town mileage the TA is the best choice. But in my opinin if you plan to motor up and down the motorway then the 1.4 LPG will smoother and last longer particularily you are planing to keep it for 6 years and maybe give it to your girlfriend.
Re the turbo effect - a lot of people like this - but if you don't - that is a key consideration.
There are a lot of recent threads where 'people' like TwinAir Newbie are getting some excellent mpg.
 
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multispoke said:
The negative reviews on the TA re fuel consumption was down to
1. New engine - needs to be broken in
2. A knock sensor issue affectingly mpg
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/258424-twinair-thread-including-mpg-43.html
Post #641

If you are doing quite a lot of town mileage the TA is the best choice. But in my opinin if you plan to motor up and down the motorway then the 1.4 LPG will smoother and last longer particularily you are planing to keep it for 6 years and maybe give it to your girlfriend.
Re the turbo effect - a lot of people like this - but if you don't - that is a key consideration.
There are a lot of recent threads where 'people' like TwinAir Newbie are getting some excellent mpg.
Click to expand...

Why would the twinair be a better option when it's anything up to 2500 euros more expensive to un over the terms he's talking about.
 
306maxi said:
Why would the twinair be a better option when it's anything up to 2500 euros more expensive to un over the terms he's talking about.
Click to expand...

the 1.2 makes a lot more sense - simpler - standard setup.
But I get the impression that this guy likes something 'a bit strong' - hence a more performance orientated model.
Maybe antarian could confirm if performance and cruising at brisk motorway speed are important considerations along with 'economy' of course.
Still the 500 was not designed for economy on the motorway with its 'bubble shape'. I reckon that after 65mph the 'economy' starts to decline exponentially.
 
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