Tuning My new 1.4 500

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Tuning My new 1.4 500

From the feedback that I have received to get any decent increase - it appears that the manifold has to be changed along with some better breathing. 115 bhp can be got with these changes but a re-map might be needed to get to 120bhp. This would match the power to weight ratio of a standard abarth.

Looks like the CAT light is on is this youtube…


The other threads that have discussed the manifold upgrade and possible mods…
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/141036-100hp-supersprint-manifold.html
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/243670-500-modifications.html

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto/31465-angel-tuning-remap.html
couldn't find anyone else who has had a re-map on the 1.4

Still not clear on the CAT - where it goes or if you can do with out it without a light coming on.
 
That seemed pretty slow? It was a rolling start too!?

You could start spending money on it yes, but where do you stop? Or you could save up and put the money towards an Abarth :p
Have to agree that just buying an Abarth would be a better start. For one thing you'll have all the torque that comes with a turbocharged engine. The Abarth will also have better suspension and brakes.

Personally I'd just leave the car as it is and when used Abarth's start appearing for reasonable prices then make the jump if you really want to.
 
i had a 1.4 500 and did the following

BMC panel filter
SPAX RSX adjustable coilovers
Supersprint manifold and system
Brembo brake discs and uprated pads

car was turned from a roly poly skittish roller skate to a pointy and responsive roller blade with the best soundtrack this side of a Ferrari


ignore the naysayers, it is a very tunable and rewarding car
 
i had a 1.4 500 and did the following

BMC panel filter
SPAX RSX adjustable coilovers
Supersprint manifold and system
Brembo brake discs and uprated pads

car was turned from a roly poly skittish roller skate to a pointy and responsive roller blade with the best soundtrack this side of a Ferrari


ignore the naysayers, it is a very tunable and rewarding car

I take Draigflag and Maxi's point that it's foolish to spend money when an Abarth is the car that I should have. It reminds me of the time that I 'moved' from an XR3i to an RS Turbo. It never stopped with the BBR chip upgrades graduating to a BBR Phase 2 which shortened the life of the engine running too much boost. Other guys with the 'standard' car put on Janspeed and they seemed quite happy with the bit of urge up the rev band. On the point about the suspension I'm pretty impressed with the 'new' car's suspension - it's funny how 39K can really tire it out plus it has ASC.

http://www.supersprint.com/USP000fia5001.asp

Using the Supersprints web site - I can get the manifold a little cheaper on another parts site - just getting the manifold will eventually 'force' me to get the rest of the system so that I can fit a sports CAT - I would not be getting a bargain system like RobW got - it would be in the region of £1,700 !

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/224124-so-much-no-more-mods.html

Looking at a Janspeed system (although probably not as good) it would come in much cheaper. Nigel has recommended this system in preference to the superspring most likely due to cost.

https://www.fiatforum.com/bravo-brava/32964-performance-exhaust.html
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/259858-performance-exhaust-1-2-1-4-a.html

On the above thread it was obvious that the manifold had to go. Replacing the standard CAT with a sports one drives up the cost - Supersprint's one is around £900 retail ! whilst the Janspeed's one is £240 retail. I am waiting for a call back on a full Janspeed system but if RobW can get me a Supersprint system for near enough what he paid for his I would get it in a heartbeat :).

To keep things 'moving along' I've bought an ITG Panel filter from camskill. I did look at the BMC panel filter and nearly opted for it since it's used in the Abarth esseesse. A detailed email from Nigel last year swayed my choice to foam as opposed to cotton guaze as the better of the 2 - but now we are only 'splitting hairs'. I would have preferred an ITG CAI but thought it best to reserve the money for a manifold/exhaust. I am hoping for a wee bit of improvement with the Filter & Denso spark plugs but really not expecting any difference.

I can now understand why in the youtube video that the cat light was on ! I have heard of guys having a de-cat exhaust and getting through a MOT (or our case it is called a NCT). My car is not due one until May 2013 :) but it is due it's annual service next Nov :(.

Many thanks for your inputs - it is really appreciated.
 
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But again, you would spend a shed load of money and still end up with a car that performs worse than an Abarth. If you had an Abarth, you would have to spend very little to turn it into seriously quick little car :)

Abarths are going for £9500 to £10,500 now, give it a year and you should pick one up for £8500 maybe?
 
But again, you would spend a shed load of money and still end up with a car that performs worse than an Abarth. If you had an Abarth, you would have to spend very little to turn it into seriously quick little car.
Abarths are going for £9500 to £10,500 now, give it a year and you should pick one up for £8500 maybe?

Haven't seen one going for £9.5K but a deal is probably deal being done on advertised price of £11k. With the warranty out on quite a few '09s next year I'd imagine that you're spot on with the £8.5 in 2012. Alhough I am still very tempted to get a full exhaust system or if a manifold & a sport cat 'married' to the existing system for a resonable price - now that would be one for the guy who started the thread on a Performance exhaust for 1.2 & 1.4.


trackdayqueen said:
multispoke said:
Would you mind if I published your last response as a way of concluding the thread ?
trackdayqueen said:
trackdayqueen said:
Good luck with getting those bits. Michael, no problem at all if you wish to post my response. Good luck with it. :)

Lauren


I updated the thread below after TrackDayQueen's PM below. I thought it might of use to other wannabes...
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/265055-induction-cold-air-feed.html


PM from TrackDayQueen...

I agree, that I think you'll gain more from a manifold than an air filter, although obviously a manifold isn't cheap. To be honest, a new engine is nice and shiny so if there are gains to be made from porting it's easy to do it on a new engine as all the bolts won't be covered in dirt and grime yet. But I admit this is expensive and is really the 'old school' route to tuning NA's. I've ported and polished heads before, but you want to take it somewhere who knows what they are doing which will cost money. I think that perhaps porting the head is maybe going a bit far at this point. Cams will be easier, but again not cheap. Am estimating the HKS (read HK$) cams in my car would add up to about £800 and that's maybe for a 20bhp gain, with a general loss of low down power and as I said before, not much point if you are restricted by the rev limits of hydraulic tappets.

In terms of air filters, people seem to have an obsession with 'cold air feeds'. There is no such thing as a cold air feed, it can only ever be ambient air. Also I would be doubtful of the advantages of getting an air feed that is say 5 degrees cooler than sticking on a cone filter in the engine bay. It's not as vital as people make out, but of course there is loads of marketing hype about how essential it is. You makes your choices.

If you can get a cone air filter setup relatively cheaply then you might as well. Power gains won't be anything significant, but it'll sound good with all that induction roar.

I would be a little wary of the GSR kit as it does mount low down in the engine bay so it is more susceptible to water ingress if you go through a deep puddle at speed.

I'd say spend as little as you can bear and get the Abarth. I know a year seems so far away, but it'll be worth the wait. :)

Cheers, Lauren


__________________
2008 Red Panda 100hp - Now for sale
 
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multipoke the desicion to modify is not always a rational one, having been on this slippery slope for a couple of years, for me there are is always the consideration of returning the car to stock which has steered me away from a couple of things (mainly a lsd)

i've not got to hung up on the warranty issues, fortunately i have a very mod friendly dealer, indeed they actually like to know what i've done, that said i've avoided certain things whsilt in warranty

oddly if was embarking on my journey i would do things differently and would start with suspension, arbs and brakes so you can exploit what you already have

in reality you are always going to get more bang ber buck with a turbo car, for me on a na i wouldn't consider doing head work as you are limiting your market for resale

oddly an ITG panel filter is the only one i have seen to produce gains, the main issue with panels is that manufactuers reduce the area by the plastic supporting the foam, ITG tend to use wire thus keeping the area reduction down, however, i am a panel filter sceptic, their CAI will do what it says on the tin as i know the dyno they use and how they compare runs

biggest limitation on zorst is always going to be stock cat, my recommendation is go for a reputable make with sports cat to avoid warning lights, i've always been a full zorst person do get the gains rather than the just the noise and tail pipe eye candy

i won't be doing any performance modding to the TA as its not been bought to tick that box

for me how it goes rounds the twisties is more important than how quick it at the traffic light grand prix

i would love to have a go in a modded arbath though at some point in time
 
multipoke the desicion to modify is not always a rational one, having been on this slippery slope for a couple of years, for me there are is always the consideration of returning the car to stock which has steered me away from a couple of things (mainly a lsd)

i've not got to hung up on the warranty issues, fortunately i have a very mod friendly dealer, indeed they actually like to know what i've done, that said i've avoided certain things whsilt in warranty

oddly if was embarking on my journey i would do things differently and would start with suspension, arbs and brakes so you can exploit what you already have

in reality you are always going to get more bang ber buck with a turbo car, for me on a na i wouldn't consider doing head work as you are limiting your market for resale

oddly an ITG panel filter is the only one i have seen to produce gains, the main issue with panels is that manufactuers reduce the area by the plastic supporting the foam, ITG tend to use wire thus keeping the area reduction down, however, i am a panel filter sceptic, their CAI will do what it says on the tin as i know the dyno they use and how they compare runs

biggest limitation on zorst is always going to be stock cat, my recommendation is go for a reputable make with sports cat to avoid warning lights, i've always been a full zorst person do get the gains rather than the just the noise and tail pipe eye candy

i won't be doing any performance modding to the TA as its not been bought to tick that box

for me how it goes rounds the twisties is more important than how quick it at the traffic light grand prix

i would love to have a go in a modded arbath though at some point in time

Thanks for input wigit. I have ordered the ITG Panel filter so at least I've done something right - or at least I will know in another couple of days :). One of the key reasons in going for the 1.4 was the suspension setup. I take it that you'll be tickering with TA's setup in due time giving that that you've ticked the box on the engine. The only 'real' mod that I would consider on the 1.4 is a performance manifold & cat and would be prepared to lose the eye candy to watch the pennies. I just posted a youtube on the Magneti marelli under 'exhausts' and I now realise the interest from forum members on a 'cheap' performance exhaust.
 
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multispoke, TA will not be tinkered with, it just means i can run a more track focused coiliver and arb setup on the rocco now :)
 
multispoke, TA will not be tinkered with, it just means i can run a more track focused coiliver and arb setup on the rocco now :)

When I came home this evening there was a 'note' from the Courier that he was here with that ITG Panel Filter - so it's in the country !

For the BMW guys with confused BNW with their BMWs and had mistakingly thought they had 'fallen' into a Beamer forum - would you be able to translate :).
 
You could start spending money on it yes, but where do you stop? Or you could save up and put the money towards an Abarth :p

Not all of us like the turbo delivery of power. Gordon Murray made the McLaren F1 naturally aspirated for a reason ;)
 
Not all of us like the turbo delivery of power. Gordon Murray made the McLaren F1 naturally aspirated for a reason ;)

After looking at the TA and the MJ for power increases the 1.4 is probably the one model that has more 'tolerance' (thinking of the gearbox). And with discs all round you can cheaply upgrade to bigger discs if they're needed for track days.
 
It just makes life a lot easier to begin with. The standard A500 turbo can get around 200 BHP with very few mods. Put a Punto SS turbo on and you can get 230 + BHP.

While on was on vacation for a week :) I had a look around for some info on gearboxs - ratios, tolerances, etc. and TBH I found it hard to got some of the information - I reckon that Fiat keep the Tuning guys in the dark to keep them guessing :D. I was initially looking at the TA and then the MJ and now we cann't leave out Draigflag's A500 :)

1.2 1.4 MJ TA A500

3.909 3.545 3.909 4.100 1st
2.158 2.158 2.158 2.158 2nd
1.480 1.480 1.345 1.345 3rd
1.121 1.121 0.974 0.974 4th
0.897 0.921 0.766 0.766 5th
0.766 6th
3.438 4.070 3.438 3.818 Reverse
M5 M6 C154 ? C154 ? C510 Gearbox
C510 ?
150? 150 206 Limit
206? II
865 930 980 900 1035 Weight
74 73 73 (TA !) Decibels

102 131 145 145 180 Outputing
200 (II) 206 (sport)

3000 4250 1500 1900 3000 RPM for torque


On the SS A500 it produces 230Nm of torque well past the rating of 206Nm. :confused: But then it came off a Alfa 147.
Get the sneaky suspicison that 500 gearboxs would be build to cost. Understand that the M6 cannot cope with the output from a A500 - but I have no 'hard' figure for it.
Note that the 5th gear on the TA is the same as the 6th gear on the 1.4

http://www.fptpowertrain.com/eng/applicazioni_automotive_cambi_eu_sa.htm#g31
 
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oddly an ITG panel filter is the only one i have seen to produce gains, the main issue with panels is that manufactuers reduce the area by the plastic supporting the foam, ITG tend to use wire thus keeping the area reduction down, however, i am a panel filter sceptic, their CAI will do what it says on the tin as i know the dyno they use and how they compare runs

I have finally put in a ITG Panel filter and can report back on the result. Ordered from Camskill and after the last c*** up - really my own fault - ordered the wrong filter I was re-imbursed for the FIRE 1.2 panel filter plus the delivery cost - impressive service from Camskill - so I placed my order with them again. Because its an export and I'm registered for VAT cost of filter plus post came to £58.77
I had dithered about getting another Pipercross CAI, GSR, BMC Panel filler (cotton gauze) or even a 'cheaper' K&N Panel filter and opted for what I believe is the best panel filter - the ITG despite a possible warranty impact.
Wrapped well. Pretty hard to damage a filter in the post.
Feels well made and bit oily in the hands.:)
The 'old' filter has quite a bit of dirt despite only having done 2.5K miles (changed last Nov).
Changing the filter literally took no more that 10-15 minutes.
No extra rasp from the engine - I heard you get this with the K&N & BMC.
Car seemed to pull better. Feels like you have Sport mode engaged but you're only in standard mode.
Car seems a bit more lively and more responsive.
Not as impressive as Pipercross CAI which felt faster 'up top' (possibly because it was making so much noise) but this has not got the 'low down' impact.
Would I buy one again - yes - worth the €65 ? - tough one :confused: - but no regrets on buying it so far.
Once I drop the wee letter to the Insurance guys I can take the sticky back off the blue label. It will be along the lines of a reusable panel filter that is good for the environment and it has no proven bhp increases.:)
 

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